jvl054 wrote:Craig Torrens wrote:Bizarre wrote:get in contact with Richard at V Force
The 76 x 103 is the expensive way.
His prefered beast is the 66x103 = 2.3??L beast
A free revving wonder that is not too dear to build.
Either u2u Alex Holzl or
www.beetleracing.com
That can't be right:o....SHORT STROKE and BIG BORE is their prefered beast??????..........sounds familiar:kiss has someone finally learnt something ???amazing how the tide turns:thumb
And JVL...........shove ya subie up your arse :repuke... some people still want to be VW powered.
GO the Type4 :thumb
Have a chat with Stan Pobjoy or Wayne Penrose.nn[ Edited on 13-7-2005 by Craig Torrens ]
Craig read what i wrote!!! not whats up your arse....Mud talk to VForce he will help you ,If you want to kick some arse get Alex Dieter all Richard to take you for a spin in a car with a type 4.This will make up your mind deffently.JVLRacing
Ahh, I think Craig's tongue was firmly planted in his cheek... For more than 10 years, since Craig started setting records in Hillclimbs with a standard-stroke Pobjoy crank, people have wanked on about "stroker" this and "stroker" that... and now we have a thread that is praising the virtues of a big-capacity engine that has shorter stroke than a 1600 Type 1...
😉Pay your debts, CxxT
My advice would be to use the 2lt stroke and the 103s.
If you still have any budget left after making everything
nice and new, including respectable compression,
spend it on cylinder head port,seat and chamber work.
In the end, capacity always wins the grunt stakes
for N/A engines, Its just that the bigger bores allow
more room for breathing ability.
Don't worry too much about what stroke it has or
what it's rod ratio is. Just try for a combo that gives
good reliable capacity with ease of parts availability
incase you ever have to replace parts.
The 66mm crank and rods are cheap and plentiful,
but I wouldnt put that in there unless you can't
afford the 2lt crank and rods.
Go for the stock 2lt stroke, counterweighted if you
think you need to.
westi wrote:That's mad Alan.
dangerous wrote:My advice would be to use the 2lt stroke and the 103s.
If you still have any budget left after making everything
nice and new, including respectable compression,
spend it on cylinder head port,seat and chamber work.
In the end, capacity always wins the grunt stakes
for N/A engines, Its just that the bigger bores allow
more room for breathing ability.
Don't worry too much about what stroke it has or
what it's rod ratio is. Just try for a combo that gives
good reliable capacity with ease of parts availability
incase you ever have to replace parts.
The 66mm crank and rods are cheap and plentiful,
but I wouldnt put that in there unless you can't
afford the 2lt crank and rods.
Go for the stock 2lt stroke, counterweighted if you
think you need to.
"Respectable compression"... "reliable capacity"..."room for breathing ability" I know you are trying to help, but that means JACK SCHIIT
Pay your debts, CxxT
VWCOOL wrote:dangerous wrote:My advice would be to use the 2lt stroke and the 103s.
If you still have any budget left after making everything
nice and new, including respectable compression,
spend it on cylinder head port,seat and chamber work.
In the end, capacity always wins the grunt stakes
for N/A engines, Its just that the bigger bores allow
more room for breathing ability.
Don't worry too much about what stroke it has or
what it's rod ratio is. Just try for a combo that gives
good reliable capacity with ease of parts availability
incase you ever have to replace parts.
The 66mm crank and rods are cheap and plentiful,
but I wouldnt put that in there unless you can't
afford the 2lt crank and rods.
Go for the stock 2lt stroke, counterweighted if you
think you need to.
"Respectable compression"... "reliable capacity"..."room for breathing ability" I know you are trying to help, but that means JACK SCHIIT
So why does mean JACK SCHIIT VWcool? Dangerous has done alot of drag racing! it sounds like a very conservative aproach without going over the top with (mods)JVLRacing
i agree with JVL on this one.
why does it mean jack shit?
im sure he could have written it out in very technical terms if he wanted to but im sure we all understand what he means with the way he said it. its actually quite a smart approach to things if you dont want to have a grenade on hand when u finshed building an engine. i mean..im no expert but i think that was out of line VWCOOL.
put your money into starting with a good strong base..that may not be the bees knees..and then after a while when u get "bored" of the power and have some more money u can poor some mroe money into it without lots of breakages. after all...he is only building a dated aircooled motor :p hehe (ok that last comment was just a dig at ya).
Anthonynn[ Edited on 8-8-2005 by 71superbug ]
Any advice is always good but saying somone's words dont mean shit thats not going to help me just let me figure out what it is and isn't and keep the type 4 related words coming ill pick out what i want
You only need two tools
Wd40 if it don't move and it should
Duct tape if it move's and it shouldn't
Yes, maybe it was harsh... and nothing personal, :kiss but the airy-fairy words he used (that I highlighted) made him sound like a 11yo Commodore fan.
I may be wrong, but I think MudBasher is beyond the Engines 101: 'Start with a good base...use a conservative approach' step... I think he may be after hard-and-fast info and experience from people that have built, raced and destroyed Type 4s. Do they crack cases? Are oil pumps expensive? Do flywheels come loose? Is the stroke/rod length combo all wrong? Is counterweighting necessary?
Maybe some words that actually have some technical relevance to MudBasher and the rest of us who are keen for info would have been better. Because the ones used here are fairy-tale stuff
nn[ Edited on 8-8-2005 by VWCOOL ]
Pay your debts, CxxT
C'mon guys.... .take it easy..... lets not have a thread similar to the pobjoy 1916 crap.
Mudbasher, i suggest you get on the phone one afternoon and hav a chat with people like richard holzl simply because they have been around the block many times with this kind of thing. Dont take what is said on this forum as gospel.... there are so many opinions, go speak to someone with tried and tested examples of thier work and go from there.
not saying the guys here dont know what theyre talking about, but for most here it is a hobby, for those like richard, it is a living.
Adam_C wrote:C'mon guys.... .take it easy..... lets not have a thread similar to the pobjoy 1916 crap.
lol...plenty of poor little darling Dubbers had their feelings hurt by that thread, huh?! The truth hurts sometimes...
Maybe give Pobjoy a call when you have done some more homework and are serious about putting together a tough Type 4. He knows more than all of us put together and as far as I know is the only one in Australia who is properly counterweighting T4 cranks for big engines :thumbnn[ Edited on 8-8-2005 by VWCOOL ]
Pay your debts, CxxT
Well I think you're all off ya faces. If you were really serious you have him put an 18litre caterpillar turbo diesel in it. Then he'd had all the capacity in the world, planet pulling torque and a motor that'd last for 2million km.
Now stick up ya dukes! :vader
Mud, call some people who know what they're talking about. I'm sure you can figure out who that is anyway. Lookin forward to what you come up with. I'm sure it'll be good. 👍
Perhaps this will be clearer.
My opinion:
103mm bore
Stock 71mm crank, I like to counterweight.
7.5 compression.
Bigger bores make room for bigger valves.
By the time you put in a new cam and lifters, new heads with larger valves and porting,
and do all the work that is required to do the job properly, you wont have much change out of $10000.
Talk to the people who take your money if you need any more of an explanation than that.
westi wrote:That's mad Alan.
dangerous wrote:Perhaps this will be clearer.
My opinion:
103mm bore
Stock 71mm crank, I like to counterweight.
7.5 compression.
Bigger bores make room for bigger valves.
By the time you put in a new cam and lifters, new heads with larger valves and porting,
and do all the work that is required to do the job properly, you wont have much change out of $10000.
Talk to the people who take your money if you need any more of an explanation than that.
A good reliable combo...no doubt Dave...Do you think if you use a 78crank with 105 bore a reliabilty factor comes into play all not?JVLRacing
when does it become " not a vw"
yeah shes got scat crank pauter rods mahle pistons n barrels engle cam raby heads but shes still a vw cos its all in a vw box(case)
cmon guys n girls:bounce my kids wont eat w'bix so do i put them in a cornflake box n then their cornflakes:duh?????
WAY TOO much:party goin on ere
vw ag owns the subie boxer so in reality the subie is more vw than any/all "mean t4's"
is that a rash on ya neck??? its all rednn[ Edited on 9-8-2005 by dubbill ]
I could just post "Why not chuck a Suby motor in", but that will not help.
I was very close to going either way with building a hot Type 4 motor or a Suby EJ22. I only went the EJ as I had just finished putting a fuel injected motor in an old Holden and had confidence to go that way. The Suby motor in some ways was a more conservative way for me to go as it is 100% stock Subaru.
I respect the hot Type 4 setup and from what I read here there is some good ideas.
I like the sound of 103mm bores with stock counterweighted crank.
The heads, I would get something really free breathing with bigger valves.
Cam I would get something again that copes with getting more out of higher rpm.
I would upgrade the valve gear, again to help with rpm.
Fuel injection would be the way to get good power, but aftermarket not VW.
That's my thoughts, feel free to ignore me, but don't reply just to diss me, I wouldn't be able to handle it. 🙂
Helbus wrote:I could just post "Why not chuck a Suby motor in", but that will not help.
I was very close to going either way with building a hot Type 4 motor or a Suby EJ22. I only went the EJ as I had just finished putting a fuel injected motor in an old Holden and had confidence to go that way. The Suby motor in some ways was a more conservative way for me to go as it is 100% stock Subaru.
I respect the hot Type 4 setup and from what I read here there is some good ideas.
I like the sound of 103mm bores with stock counterweighted crank.
The heads, I would get something really free breathing with bigger valves.
Cam I would get something again that copes with getting more out of higher rpm.
I would upgrade the valve gear, again to help with rpm.
Fuel injection would be the way to get good power, but aftermarket not VW.
That's my thoughts, feel free to ignore me, but don't reply just to diss me, I wouldn't be able to handle it. 🙂
Well said Pete:thumbJVLRacing
what bout the loss of piston speed needed to overcum the t4 exhaust port design "stroker n shell get all warm n fuzzy" the t4 pwr is in the heads if you have as much money as raby you could rnd a hot t4 but he has proven the 2332 is a bullet proof very capable mtr just buy a raby kit he has spent thousands tens of thousands n many an hour so utalise some of his knowlege hell while were talking bucks just fly ova n see it for your self......then just chuck a subie in it= free holiday to the states
dubbill wrote:what bout the loss of piston speed needed to overcum the t4 exhaust port design "stroker n shell get all warm n fuzzy" the t4 pwr is in the heads if you have as much money as raby you could rnd a hot t4 but he has proven the 2332 is a bullet proof very capable mtr just buy a raby kit he has spent thousands tens of thousands n many an hour so utalise some of his knowlege hell while were talking bucks just fly ova n see it for your self......then just chuck a subie in it= free holiday to the states
That true as well! its the old saying....$$$$for hps and more in the pocket!!!!!!JVLRacing:thumb
dubbill wrote:what bout the loss of piston speed needed to overcum the t4 exhaust port design "stroker n shell get all warm n fuzzy" the t4 pwr is in the heads if you have as much money as raby you could rnd a hot t4 but he has proven the 2332 is a bullet proof very capable mtr just buy a raby kit he has spent thousands tens of thousands n many an hour so utalise some of his knowlege hell while were talking bucks just fly ova n see it for your self......then just chuck a subie in it= free holiday to the states
$$$$$4hps more in the pocket n more in the roctet!!!
I like the sound of VW motors in VWs, even if it is only a vw case! I also like the proven reliability of stock motors.
So I am constantly torn between the 2 options. At the moment I am 60% Subie minded.
Would it be possibe for you guys that are stating your preferred VW build to have some approx dollar value to your designs?
I know that is a hard one to answer but I have absolutely no idea of the cost.
I do know that a 2ltr reco is in the $4,000 range. (not DIY)
Maybe that could be used as a base?
What sort of bucks are we looking at for the subie conversion? Again I haven't got much idea, although I have heard of some place in QLD that does it for $4000, drive in drive out.
I think that is for the smallest subie lump.
The EJ 22 would be more than that of course.
I just did a search and found this thread
http://www.aussieveedubbers.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=41510
EJ22 kit, $6500nnnn[ Edited on 9-8-2005 by Twokombies ]
yeah mate try n build a Mean t4 for less than 8000......then add labour
VWCOOL wrote:Yes, maybe it was harsh... and nothing personal, :kiss but the airy-fairy words he used (that I highlighted) made him sound like a 11yo Commodore fan.
I may be wrong, but I think MudBasher is beyond the Engines 101: 'Start with a good base...use a conservative approach' step... I think he may be after hard-and-fast info and experience from people that have built, raced and destroyed Type 4s. Do they crack cases? Are oil pumps expensive? Do flywheels come loose? Is the stroke/rod length combo all wrong? Is counterweighting necessary?
Maybe some words that actually have some technical relevance to MudBasher and the rest of us who are keen for info would have been better. Because the ones used here are fairy-tale stuff
nn[ Edited on 8-8-2005 by VWCOOL ]
yeah im along way pass engines 101 and i have built many engines so just jump to the point ill know what your on about.
And you subie guys please don't come up with the usuall subie dribble if i wanted to know how good they are i would just go talk to brad so please.
And my heads have been sorted 5mm bigger s/s valuves and ported and im going efi the same as ratty 63's delco system
You only need two tools
Wd40 if it don't move and it should
Duct tape if it move's and it shouldn't
who did your head work???
what size valves??
dport or oval
to Jvl and dubbill, PULL YA HEADS IN!!!
I may agree with you but you're in the wrong part of the forum. Go back to non-vw engines. 😬
If we all really wanted rocket ships we'd play with skylines (yawn) or porsches, and not be wasting our time with VWs. But we are, so if mudbasher wants a type 4, let him have one. It's his hobby and his wallet. :o
just waiting for the thread ""who can help me fit a "mean t4" into my sti""
might be why i keep embarassing all the subie boy racer wannabee's in my rx3(320km/h@13000revs)
they need the t4:Pnn[ Edited on 9-8-2005 by dubbill ]
pete wood wrote:to Jvl and dubbill, PULL YA HEADS IN!!!
I may agree with you but you're in the wrong part of the forum. Go back to non-vw engines. 😬
If we all really wanted rocket ships we'd play with skylines (yawn) or porsches, and not be wasting our time with VWs. But we are, so if mudbasher wants a type 4, let him have one. It's his hobby and his wallet. :o
Pete,why would i pull my head in! not once have imention for him to buy a subie.Ive built a T4 and i know what it all about.And as far as rocket ships go,my VW subie is one.I have already suggested for mudbasher who to talk to and to get the right advise of.JVLRacing
Sorry if I miss understood, but i'm sure you can see why I might have. 😉
pete wood wrote:Sorry if I miss understood, but i'm sure you can see why I might have. 😉
:thumbJVLRacing
Group hug guy's! I'm sticking to type4's until everyone refrains from telling me to "convert to subi man" along with simplicity and fixability in the bush. Am watching this post with interest..
Go hard Mud Man I say!
mmm interesting post .. I too went down the Type 4 path before going up the Subie Tree. The thing I find funny is that Type 4 supporters tell you how they can fix it on the side of the road and how simple it is. Correct me if I m wrong but I am guessing you are going to run after market FI on this baby. If this is that case then you have bugger all VW left and Bugger all you can fix on the side of the track. SO what you are really building is an air cooled subie engine .. yeah ?? That being said if you build it right then there should be no need to fix anything on the side of the track.. Anyway back to the point ...
I would talk to Gary at Conti Engines or John Alder at Volks Engineering. Both have built a number of big Type 4 engines. I know from experience that John Alder has built some real weapons that have done a lot of beach and offroad work. As stated before he has been building them for many years and should be able to tell you all about the traps for young players.
If it was me I would go stock 2L stroke and bigger pots. Keep it neat with some good head work and good aftermarket FI .. walla a reliable air cooled subie motor :kiss
The last kombi I went in with a 2.3L type 4 built by John Alder went like stink and had cost the guy just over $12 000 . This info was from the owner and I can only go off what I am told. It definately went harder / faster than my EJ 22 powered kombi. Then again I have a $500 engine in my DC :>
Brad
Why copy when you can own an original ?
Meyers Manx Australia
