James
Are you going to Heathcoat this Sunday??
Boostn Wolfsburg Wizard
657 posts · joined Apr 2005 ·
chasing sub 12.5's in a 2250lb Fastback
VWCOOL 23 Windows of Awesome
5,158 posts · joined Jun 2003 ·
lol... Fastbax Hoodjax!vwfastback wrote:Here is the offset of the decklid when shut.
This makes a huge difference when driving.
Pay your debts, CxxT
vwfastback Seriously Crusin Dubber
187 posts · joined Oct 2003 ·
Finally got the accelerator cable sussed out.
It is getting harder to find carb connection pieces around these days. FInally sourced a cable nut and bold to connect to the holley.
To get the cable around the fan shroud, used a 1.5cm length of tube steel. Bent and cut to shape.
Inside that a length of bicycle brake shroud.
The cable is a lenth of stainless steel cable from a boating shop. Have cut to suit.
Found that the problem was the cable wouldn't return.
Went to visit good old bunnings and went through and found an appropriate spring.
Works a treat. Got the idle set up and thought I would try to record it. File is 1.7mg. Am still learning about saving the different formats.
Not much to see really, some smoke and stuff. REducing the file to this size stops the vision of the engine shaking, the movement of the fuel pressure.
You can hear the holley fuel pump initially. I get the car to an idle at 1900rpm and then rev to only 4300 rpm. It sounds good from inside, can't wait to get it to 7500 on the track.
Click here for 1.7m video of Fastback startup
Its close. Soon Boostn, soon.
It is getting harder to find carb connection pieces around these days. FInally sourced a cable nut and bold to connect to the holley.
To get the cable around the fan shroud, used a 1.5cm length of tube steel. Bent and cut to shape.
Inside that a length of bicycle brake shroud.
The cable is a lenth of stainless steel cable from a boating shop. Have cut to suit.
Found that the problem was the cable wouldn't return.
Went to visit good old bunnings and went through and found an appropriate spring.
Works a treat. Got the idle set up and thought I would try to record it. File is 1.7mg. Am still learning about saving the different formats.
Not much to see really, some smoke and stuff. REducing the file to this size stops the vision of the engine shaking, the movement of the fuel pressure.
You can hear the holley fuel pump initially. I get the car to an idle at 1900rpm and then rev to only 4300 rpm. It sounds good from inside, can't wait to get it to 7500 on the track.
Click here for 1.7m video of Fastback startup
Its close. Soon Boostn, soon.
Boostn Wolfsburg Wizard
657 posts · joined Apr 2005 ·
Let's go Racing !!
Boostn Wolfsburg Wizard
657 posts · joined Apr 2005 ·
Let's go Racing !!
humpty Bishop of Volkswagenism
3,336 posts · joined Sep 2002 ·
Right...
Now we have the start up vid...How about some action....
You know the stuff we're after...Demo's in the staging lane, HSV's for breaky (EZ), the odd 'Godzilla' for lunch (bit tougher), some RX's for dinner (Hmm?) and finish off with a Superbike of two (ooohh yeah!)....
he, he...
Can't wait!
Now we have the start up vid...How about some action....
You know the stuff we're after...Demo's in the staging lane, HSV's for breaky (EZ), the odd 'Godzilla' for lunch (bit tougher), some RX's for dinner (Hmm?) and finish off with a Superbike of two (ooohh yeah!)....
he, he...
Can't wait!
pete wood 23 Windows of Awesome
6,828 posts · joined Jan 2004 ·
Love the vid.
I'm sure I spied a bloody big grin on the owner's face as he walked past at the end. 😉 😀
I'm sure I spied a bloody big grin on the owner's face as he walked past at the end. 😉 😀
"stoopid is stronger than axles"
http://drivingnotpolishing.blogspot.com.au/
http://drivingnotpolishing.blogspot.com.au/
Midlife crisis Nartispuddlejumper, Bureau of Toxicity
2,282 posts · joined May 2003 ·
Great Vid, Can't wait to see it on the test run up and down the street.
Marc
Marc
If you can't laugh at yourself you can't laugh at anyone else! Because life is to short not to LAUGH
vwfastback Seriously Crusin Dubber
187 posts · joined Oct 2003 ·
Hard not to smile with that sound after 18 months of planning and 12 months of having it built.
Prior to the dumping of rain last weekend, I did attempt to get the beast out of a "test" drive to the end of the road and back. (I am on a country road with only 3 house and no through road.)
Could not get the clutch to engage. Raised the car up and tightened the cable. All ok again.
More serious is though, with the engine now in the car, the extra weight of the plumbing and turbo brings the wheel guard down on the DOT tires. No problems with the origional, but they will not handle the power down the track.
I will need to see if I can tune the suspension for the weight, roll the guards and see about machining the spacers. It is close, but not quite ready for the track.
Pulled the plugs as well, and it is running quite rich. Will need to get it tuned correctly. I can tune the idle, but have no idea on the jetting on this yet. Will have to wait until I race to judge the mixtures.
Finally, waiting on delivery of the boost module for the Mallory. Will be able to set it up to alter timing depending on the boost level.
Will update as we get closer.
James C
Prior to the dumping of rain last weekend, I did attempt to get the beast out of a "test" drive to the end of the road and back. (I am on a country road with only 3 house and no through road.)
Could not get the clutch to engage. Raised the car up and tightened the cable. All ok again.
More serious is though, with the engine now in the car, the extra weight of the plumbing and turbo brings the wheel guard down on the DOT tires. No problems with the origional, but they will not handle the power down the track.
I will need to see if I can tune the suspension for the weight, roll the guards and see about machining the spacers. It is close, but not quite ready for the track.
Pulled the plugs as well, and it is running quite rich. Will need to get it tuned correctly. I can tune the idle, but have no idea on the jetting on this yet. Will have to wait until I race to judge the mixtures.
Finally, waiting on delivery of the boost module for the Mallory. Will be able to set it up to alter timing depending on the boost level.
Will update as we get closer.
James C
hypo-vw Australias 1st 10sec street beetle (Jan 2007) 10.49secs@132m
2,151 posts · joined May 2004 ·
been watching the build-up , looks great James , well done . Can't wait to see and hear this beast go !! This will be a true surprise packet for anyone trying to take it on .
Team
FASTEST ET @ WARWICK 2010 & 2011
FASTEST SPEED @ WARWICK 2011
FASTEST ET & SPEED WSID 2012
PB - 6.33@113.07(1/8) & 9.88@135(1/4)
FASTEST ET @ WARWICK 2010 & 2011
FASTEST SPEED @ WARWICK 2011
FASTEST ET & SPEED WSID 2012
PB - 6.33@113.07(1/8) & 9.88@135(1/4)
tassupervee That really hurts doesnt it!
1,171 posts · joined Sep 2003 ·
Just sussing out the pix above .Firstly, nice work M8, noiyce!
One thing to consider with Holleys and some downdraft Webers.
They are designed to exploit acceleration G's to raise and lower fuel level relative to the metering block. Ie: the fule runs away from or toward the metering block altering the effective fuel height at the metering block.
This is to enrich the mixture on hard acceleration and climbing hills to help deal with heat buildup and detonation issues, the reverse is true on decel and downhill.
On this particular arrangement, the primaries are in the right side which *can* result in leaning out on hard left hand corners as the fuel will run away from the metering block.
Many Weber and Holley setups inexplicably stall on violent braking at very low speed and this is a major reason as the fuel will run away from the metering block, hence leaning out the mixtures.Its bloody irritating but a fact of life.
Im not entirely sure how things are dealt with with the secondary throats however as at first glance, the reverse must be true and the secondaries would appear to compensate and vice versa. I imagine that Holley wouild be on top of this being a long performing horsepower carb so this might be worth researching further.
It may be a minor point in a straigh line and a relatively low powered/low tech shopping trolley as the change of mixture is insignificant when fuel level changes across the car but worthy of consideration when you start to get serious with this force-fed thing. The thing will be on plenty of boost and revs and not necessarily have the Vac secondaries open.
Many years ago a M8 of mine discovered this with his 283 Chev inboard boat with a 500 2 bbl Holley mounted with the float chamber rearwards. It was done this way due to the ease of throttle cables and lack of knowledge.
As soon as the nose of the boat climbed up from a standing start, the thing would detonate and loose power, yet, it ran beautifully under full power when level and planing.
It required really major jetting and powervalve changes to compensate and the end result was dismal fuel economy and poor W.O.T. performance.
Anyway, enough thread hijacking.
Just something to ponder in your chase for big numbers.
L8tr
E
One thing to consider with Holleys and some downdraft Webers.
They are designed to exploit acceleration G's to raise and lower fuel level relative to the metering block. Ie: the fule runs away from or toward the metering block altering the effective fuel height at the metering block.
This is to enrich the mixture on hard acceleration and climbing hills to help deal with heat buildup and detonation issues, the reverse is true on decel and downhill.
On this particular arrangement, the primaries are in the right side which *can* result in leaning out on hard left hand corners as the fuel will run away from the metering block.
Many Weber and Holley setups inexplicably stall on violent braking at very low speed and this is a major reason as the fuel will run away from the metering block, hence leaning out the mixtures.Its bloody irritating but a fact of life.
Im not entirely sure how things are dealt with with the secondary throats however as at first glance, the reverse must be true and the secondaries would appear to compensate and vice versa. I imagine that Holley wouild be on top of this being a long performing horsepower carb so this might be worth researching further.
It may be a minor point in a straigh line and a relatively low powered/low tech shopping trolley as the change of mixture is insignificant when fuel level changes across the car but worthy of consideration when you start to get serious with this force-fed thing. The thing will be on plenty of boost and revs and not necessarily have the Vac secondaries open.
Many years ago a M8 of mine discovered this with his 283 Chev inboard boat with a 500 2 bbl Holley mounted with the float chamber rearwards. It was done this way due to the ease of throttle cables and lack of knowledge.
As soon as the nose of the boat climbed up from a standing start, the thing would detonate and loose power, yet, it ran beautifully under full power when level and planing.
It required really major jetting and powervalve changes to compensate and the end result was dismal fuel economy and poor W.O.T. performance.
Anyway, enough thread hijacking.
Just something to ponder in your chase for big numbers.
L8tr
E
Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....
58bbugger Casual Dubber
29 posts · joined Aug 2005 ·
Hey mate, you should post you pics on the turbo monster post !
vwfastback Seriously Crusin Dubber
187 posts · joined Oct 2003 ·
27/8, I ordered the boost retard module for the mallory. It arrived today from the US. Shipping wasn't the problem. Supply of a cable was.
The engine can now undergo some shake down testing. A street exhaust has been added, and limited boost dialed in. Boost 98 from united fuels is the fuel of choice for 15 pound of boost. 10% ethernol in a street legal fuel is a good thing.
All things going well, should be back to the track very shortly. Should have something to post soon.
James C.
The engine can now undergo some shake down testing. A street exhaust has been added, and limited boost dialed in. Boost 98 from united fuels is the fuel of choice for 15 pound of boost. 10% ethernol in a street legal fuel is a good thing.
All things going well, should be back to the track very shortly. Should have something to post soon.
James C.
vwfastback Seriously Crusin Dubber
187 posts · joined Oct 2003 ·
No sooner than the car is complete, than I am about to pull it apart again.
The engine has been tuned in the car, and the bugs ironed out.
I have never been in a vw like this. I like it.
The boost is an amazing thing. It doesn't come on really until 3 gear, and then not until the revs are high, but when it does, it pulls like a steam train. This is going to be an amazing car on the track.
To give an idea on the power on a set of sticky street yokohamas at the rear, with two people in the car, a launch was tested. First and second gear is noisy and get moving quickly. Third gear revs nicely, then the boost comes on. Changing at approx 6500 RPM, to fourth, the boost stays on.
The car continues to accelerate, straight, while the wheels start spinning due to loss of traction. Tyres then grab and away it goes.
I was happy with that, until I worked back the maths. Changing from 3rd to 4th, the car was doing about 70mph when it started spinning the tyres. (This was of course on a private road...)
I am very, very happy with that.
There is another month until the next test and tune at Heathcote. I am going to take the opportunity to have all the new plumbing HPC'd to protect it. I will remove all the goodies surrounding the engine, and send them off to be protected and made shiny.
I think that I will make my goal with this setup.
Cheers,
James C.
The engine has been tuned in the car, and the bugs ironed out.
I have never been in a vw like this. I like it.
The boost is an amazing thing. It doesn't come on really until 3 gear, and then not until the revs are high, but when it does, it pulls like a steam train. This is going to be an amazing car on the track.
To give an idea on the power on a set of sticky street yokohamas at the rear, with two people in the car, a launch was tested. First and second gear is noisy and get moving quickly. Third gear revs nicely, then the boost comes on. Changing at approx 6500 RPM, to fourth, the boost stays on.
The car continues to accelerate, straight, while the wheels start spinning due to loss of traction. Tyres then grab and away it goes.
I was happy with that, until I worked back the maths. Changing from 3rd to 4th, the car was doing about 70mph when it started spinning the tyres. (This was of course on a private road...)
I am very, very happy with that.
There is another month until the next test and tune at Heathcote. I am going to take the opportunity to have all the new plumbing HPC'd to protect it. I will remove all the goodies surrounding the engine, and send them off to be protected and made shiny.
I think that I will make my goal with this setup.
Cheers,
James C.
Alex Holzl 2332cc of pure BALLZ!!
1,550 posts · joined Jan 2004 ·
WOW!!! sounds like shes alot of fun!!
How come it doesnt boost up in 1st and 2nd and untill high revs?
alex
How come it doesnt boost up in 1st and 2nd and untill high revs?
alex
tassupervee That really hurts doesnt it!
1,171 posts · joined Sep 2003 ·
Hehehehehe welcome to the world of very larger turbos drawing thru a carby and long inlet runners!!
You wont be wanting keep thats setup for long M8.
When you do change, you will wonder why you ever bothered with the carb. Such is the improvement!
Good luck with it tho.
l8tr
E
You wont be wanting keep thats setup for long M8.
When you do change, you will wonder why you ever bothered with the carb. Such is the improvement!
Good luck with it tho.
l8tr
E
Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....
dangerous 23 Windows of Awesome
5,901 posts · joined Jan 2005 ·
I have found that a really tall first gear helps turbo cars.
Like a 3.00 ratio with 3.875 diff...even with tall tyres.
Like a 3.00 ratio with 3.875 diff...even with tall tyres.
westi wrote:That's mad Alan.
shiftyvw Wolfsburg Wizard
523 posts · joined Sep 2002 ·
I think im going to with a similar setup after some thought, Old School Power!
testing 1 2 3...
Alex Holzl 2332cc of pure BALLZ!!
1,550 posts · joined Jan 2004 ·
That looks like a VERY short inlet track to me... Maybe just a huge turbo and doesnt spoll up early???
Alex
Alex
tassupervee wrote:Hehehehehe welcome to the world of very larger turbos drawing thru a carby and long inlet runners!!
You wont be wanting keep thats setup for long M8.
When you do change, you will wonder why you ever bothered with the carb. Such is the improvement!
Good luck with it tho.
l8tr
E
shiftyvw Wolfsburg Wizard
523 posts · joined Sep 2002 ·
whats your impressiuon of driving it normally so far? a pig off boost or not too bad?
testing 1 2 3...
tassupervee That really hurts doesnt it!
1,171 posts · joined Sep 2003 ·
Err.... you call that short??Alex Holzl wrote:That looks like a VERY short inlet track to me... Maybe just a huge turbo and doesnt spoll up early???
Id call it at least a meter from the carb to the valve plus a plenum on top of the runners just to stall things up further. Big volume, long distance.
Believe me dude thats seriously L o n g!.....
For a pull-thru carb setup that is.
L8tr
E
Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....
Alex Holzl 2332cc of pure BALLZ!!
1,550 posts · joined Jan 2004 ·
oh yeah for a setup like that, but not compared to your normal intercooled setup...
alex
alex
tassupervee That really hurts doesnt it!
1,171 posts · joined Sep 2003 ·
Waaaaaay long, however not much choice with a pull-thru arrangement on a boxer engine.
I would have retained the original Weber setup and blown thru them.
Webers make an excellent turbo carb with some minor alterations and with the carbs directly on top of the inlet ports, things would happen really nicely on that setup.
The length of the tubing bact to the turbo then becomes irrelevant.
Throttle response and driveability increases/improves dramatically, boost lag decreases significantly and intercooling becomes a reality.
Fuel condensation in all that tubing does not happen when cold and tuning becomes a far simpler affair with very little variation compared with the mixture variations on a pull-thru setup. You can NEVER get it right most of the time.
I have utilliesd both draw-thru and pull-thru affairs with a variety of carbs on the same engine and the difference is absolutely spectacular apart from absolutely wide open throttle on boost!
However, I did find that the mixture atomisation from passing thru the compressor resulted in, at the end of the day, slightly better fuel consumption in the draw-thru setup every time.
The only trickery for blow-thru is an EFI fuel pump and a boost controlled fuel pressure regulator.
L8tr
E
I would have retained the original Weber setup and blown thru them.
Webers make an excellent turbo carb with some minor alterations and with the carbs directly on top of the inlet ports, things would happen really nicely on that setup.
The length of the tubing bact to the turbo then becomes irrelevant.
Throttle response and driveability increases/improves dramatically, boost lag decreases significantly and intercooling becomes a reality.
Fuel condensation in all that tubing does not happen when cold and tuning becomes a far simpler affair with very little variation compared with the mixture variations on a pull-thru setup. You can NEVER get it right most of the time.
I have utilliesd both draw-thru and pull-thru affairs with a variety of carbs on the same engine and the difference is absolutely spectacular apart from absolutely wide open throttle on boost!
However, I did find that the mixture atomisation from passing thru the compressor resulted in, at the end of the day, slightly better fuel consumption in the draw-thru setup every time.
The only trickery for blow-thru is an EFI fuel pump and a boost controlled fuel pressure regulator.
L8tr
E
Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....
Boostn Wolfsburg Wizard
657 posts · joined Apr 2005 ·
The car has NO problem spooling up, in any gear. The T60 turbo comes alive around 20 psi, but is only set up on 15 psi until James gets used to driving a turbo car. It takes time to learn how to drive and get the feel of a drawthrough turbo VW with a T60 and a Holley 750.
This is a power set up and is designed for big boost.A smaller less powerful set up would be easier to drive.
This is a power set up and is designed for big boost.A smaller less powerful set up would be easier to drive.
tassupervee That really hurts doesnt it!
1,171 posts · joined Sep 2003 ·
Thats right, it takes time to get used to a drawthru setup!
Takes far less time to get used to a blowthru setup.
The difference is dramatic. However, whatever gives you a stiffy.
For mine, pull thru setups are very "how ya goin".
L8tr
E
Takes far less time to get used to a blowthru setup.
The difference is dramatic. However, whatever gives you a stiffy.
For mine, pull thru setups are very "how ya goin".
L8tr
E
Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....
Boostn Wolfsburg Wizard
657 posts · joined Apr 2005 ·
[ Edited on 8/11/2005 by Boostn ]
Boostn Wolfsburg Wizard
657 posts · joined Apr 2005 ·
Boostn Wolfsburg Wizard
657 posts · joined Apr 2005 ·
GoLfMan Seriously Crusin Dubber
102 posts · joined May 2005 ·
:beer:party i love it james now i just gotta see it in person
[ Edited on 9/11/2005 by GoLfMan ]
[ Edited on 9/11/2005 by GoLfMan ]
firebreathing 4 potter...
vwfastback Seriously Crusin Dubber
187 posts · joined Oct 2003 ·
Time to play.
Heathcote is on tomorrow and the car is on the trailer.
Weather is going to be hot, but at least no chance of rain.
All I want out of tomorrow is a non-broken car and driver. Time to shake down and debug issues. I want to see how it launchs, how it runs, and how it handles RPM.
James C.
Heathcote is on tomorrow and the car is on the trailer.
Weather is going to be hot, but at least no chance of rain.
All I want out of tomorrow is a non-broken car and driver. Time to shake down and debug issues. I want to see how it launchs, how it runs, and how it handles RPM.
James C.