PROGRESS REPORT:
-------------------------------------
Ok... 😀, i got the starter wired up right. I have pulled out the starter about 4 to 5 times, last night, sat down and really played with it. The battery is GREAT! wiring it up directly with the battery, throws it out fully, and turns it too! Excellent...
BUT! WHen i wire it up 'properly' and hit the ignition, it makes the click but doesn't turn. It seems to only throw out a 'TINY' bit, hardly at all, (tis what the click sound must be), And seems to not ahve enough zzzap! to throw it out fully and activate the turning operation. the earth is good, but the red wire coming from the ignition just isn't supplyin' the guts.
was recommended to wire up the relay back on, will do in time when i get some spare (have started uni back again)... but regardless, cause of it being an after market item, it should at least do some operation being a stock wiring setup i have done up. (unplugged the relayin the process of tryin to solve this mystery)
So... the starter is GOOD
Battery is GOOD
Problem lies in the ignition wiring. If it was being earthed, u would think it wouldn't get any current what so eva, and wouldn't even click... SO what u rekon it might be? Am sooo close to turning 😀
BTW, thanx volkswagenboy1 for comin' around and wiring up my engine, got some good progress there and a great run through. I feel learnered 😀
[ Edited on 18/7/2006 by bajachris88 ]
[ Edited on 19/7/2006 by bajachris88 ]
[ Edited on 20/7/2006 by bajachris88 ]
[ Edited on 21/7/2006 by bajachris88 ]
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears. 👍
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta!
did you have it in neutral
meetings 1st sunday of the month
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-Staggers.
STAGGERS AUTOMOTIVE - Heavy Vehicle Diesel Specialist
JB CUSTOMS & CLASSICS - Car Builders
2/53 Tradelink Drive, Browns Plains
stupid qhuestion maybe... but how is your battey? thats what they do when theyre flat sometimes,
sorry mate cant help ya with your wiring mines all diferent now
76 baywindow kombi - V8 & Weddle racing diff and gearbox
Daily driven beach cruiser
tap the solinoid on the starter may be sticking ..
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im thinking battery as well mate
“We all pay for life with death, so everything in between should be free.” Bill Hicks
the chaos project - click me
semi auto must be in neutral to start,has got me a couple of times
meetings 1st sunday of the month
check wbsite for location
All Welcome
http://www.flatfour.org/
and on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/FlatFourbad connection to the battery? ie crook/corrdoded terminals
Bad earth? (need a big strap/wire from the gearbox to the chassis/battery
Pay your debts, CxxT
yeah, was DEFINITELY in neutral cause i have 1 wheel jacked up and taken off so as to have easy access to the starter and other loose cables and yadayada.
Hmm, Bad earth,definitly could be the case, will try earthing it. even try starting the starter outside the gearbox.
The battery was charged recently for 24 hrs 4 days ago, cause i thought that too. It works like a charm (the battery), well, seems to, radio is hell loud, and luves to make sparks 😀 (the battery). Usually i can notice a degrade in the radio volume/quality over time with the battery, seeing its neva had a gene on to recharge it 😀
Will tap solenoid too.
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears. 👍
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta!
Could be the brush's in the starter This happened to me a month ago! New brushs now she starts.
Rob...
Boxer Power
Member of DMLRK.....Die Mittler Lebuns Resto Komeradschaft
hmm... could be. was turning like months ago without the engine being in ( i made sure i didn't burn it out)
IT DID TURN yesterday! Only I had it wired wrong! And would turn without the ignition being on. And did not turn the motor though, the motor just went and turned!!! :o
Has mine got a mind of its own ?? Lol
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears. 👍
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta!
Yeah mine was working perfectly one day not the next!
Rob...
Boxer Power
Member of DMLRK.....Die Mittler Lebuns Resto Komeradschaft
Starter solenoid on a semi auto won't click unless in neutral
unless the neutral cutoff switch is bypassed....
a bit dangerous that.....
I forgot last year about being in neutral.... I went outside to where the car was , on the side of the road, hit the key... no go... so using the VW jack, I jacked up the RHS
and gave the carby idle a couple of turns...
Turned the ignition on and shorted out the contacts on the starter motor.... with a large screwdriver..
The engine started right away.... revving... and trying to go forward... taking the jack with it.... jack was digging into the newly tarred road... I jumped out from under the car quickly..... wondering why the car would want to try to move!!!
then i remembered, it was in gear.....
You may have enough power in Your battery to activate the solenoid.... but NOT activate the starter motor...
take the earth lead off the body, and clean the end of the cable and where it bolts on....
Use a new cadmium/zinc plated/stainless steel bolt to get maximum current...
also at the front of the gearbox there is another braided lead between the chassis and the gearbox...
clean both ends of this too...
over the years these straps and most copper wires etc will have been contaminated... so they are no longer a good contact... You can use a file or wire brush etc to shiney them up... [body/chassis too....]
cheers
Lee
- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---
how lee, wats up with those wires that plug to the gearbox, i think they are the ones ur talking about.
what do they do? They are like, 3 blades per plug, and theres 2 of em, one one each side of the gearbox, but at different positions.
Could my relay be playing up? which wire from the voltage regulator (in what position on which blade of the regulator) goes to the starter ?
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears. 👍
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta!
it was in neutral, from memory.
But even if i had it going, with the engine in (yesterday), without it pushing the flywheel around..., does that mean something could be screwed. It wasn't pushing the flywheel, and wasn't running through the ignition.
I have no wires pluged to the motor, or generator, can these interfer at all?
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears. 👍
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta!
From a tired memory tonight Chris,
I don't think any do??
You have the main Large cable going to the starter
solenoid, then there is a small wire which goes to the ignition switch... [via the LHS 3 pronged switch]
One of the 3 pronged switches [LHS]
is the neutral switch so the car can't be started in gear...
and the wire going to the control valve also goes thru it..
I don't know why??
The RHS 3 prong switch... is connected to the two single pronged temperature switches and it selects which range You are in, if the ATF gets hot...
this was omitted after 1972...
The two single prongs are temperature switches that are connected to the ATF light in the speedo...
If the light comes on , it means You have to shift back to drive 1... this would normally only happen pulling a trailer or 4 or 5 extra large people in the car going up a large hill..
Lee
- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---
Here is another diagram....
From different models....
but still the same....
I hope You can read them OK...
Lee
- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---
Chris,
I have resent some wiring diagrams to Your email address...
They may be larger.....??
Lee
- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---
Bump 😀
cheers all for ur contributions, the issue is slowly being narrowed down. might have some ideas what it could be, but am currently at uni and can't test em out. so like to hear all urs 😀
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears. 👍
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta!
Chris,
Re the Neutral switch. Make sure the plug is on the right way!! It is supposed to slip down and over a moulded pop up spade, but you can fit it on different ways if you are unlucky. BTW, the plug is on the passenger side of the gearbox, right up on the nosecone
You may also have a voltage drop big enough that your solenoid doesn't fire properly....
Is the relay you mentioned a hard start relay?
As everyone else has mentioned...clean everything and make sure you're earths are OK. Your battery may charge, but it might not hold it and you could have a burnt out cell. Swap for a KNOWN good one just in case.
Enjoy
Ctefeh
chances are the ignition switch is old an worn and wont pass enough current to pull in the solinoid
had this problem in a few of my bugs
the quick easy method one on of them i did was just fit a push button switch for the starter motor
Joel
ctefeh wrote:Chris,
Re the Neutral switch. Make sure the plug is on the right way!! It is supposed to slip down and over a moulded pop up spade, but you can fit it on different ways if you are unlucky. BTW, the plug is on the passenger side of the gearbox, right up on the nosecone
You may also have a voltage drop big enough that your solenoid doesn't fire properly....
Is the relay you mentioned a hard start relay?
As everyone else has mentioned...clean everything and make sure you're earths are OK. Your battery may charge, but it might not hold it and you could have a burnt out cell. Swap for a KNOWN good one just in case.
Enjoy
Ctefeh
Yeah, not sure if its a hard start relay, but the starter WAS turning without the engine on a few months back, with the relay wired up...
I tried it with a good battery, same thing occured, same behaviour. I have a feeling that it just may be the earth. In regards to the neutral switch, lee mentioned that hte solenoid shouldn't click if its NOT in neutral, so it can't be that, as it does click...
So i'm gonna have to try the relay... and if no works, then check my earth... if no works, wire a temporary push start button, with another relay circuit
😉 from the ignition... But i would imagine, if the relay doesn't get the starter turning (the one i already got), its gotta be an earth prob... cause It does get some current in there no doubt.... and the relay runs directly from the battery, turning itself on with the small current from the ignition switch...
More playing around i need to do i guess :P
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears. 👍
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta!
just hardwire if you want it started. Get a wiring diagram, find you earth, positive and then the terminals for the ignition. Once you find the right ignition terminals just short them with a screwdriver or peice of wire and it will crank. This is what i did to make sure the engine ran and did not lead oil prior to installing...
cheers mate, yeah, might have to give that the go...,
can't push start an SEMI auto can ya? cause the clutch can be in... hmm, but the torque converter needs to be flying toget movement... neah. Ur idea is good mate... must start da bastard that way, HAHA!
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears. 👍
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta!
Show us your starter..is it a proper auto starter?
If it is not, it will hit on the torque converter, and not turn the engine over,
but be OK out of the car.
westi wrote:That's mad Alan.
ide also check teh bushing in the gear box bell housing where the starter motor shaft pivots. May be some dirt or something (god knows what) in there stopping the starter solanoid from pushing the shaft right out and meshing the teeth.
WTF HELL!! I'm so... well, if this was BA, i would be f*(k$n flaming my head of, cause i'm just soo SH$#ED
Great, starter motor with appropriate wiring, earth strap wasn't properly connected so fixed it, excellent, all good, should work, start ya Bit@H! It didn't...
IT made a louder clunk, and playing with the engine, i turned it, had a specific point where it wouldn't go all the way around, probably only 1 or 2 degrees of revolution it just wouldn't pass though. NO it wasn't compression, because compression doesn't make a clunk and doesn't come on INSTANTANEOUSLY, so i pulled the F$%KEN peice of S#$T engine out... great, the engine now turns the whole way and around again when its OUT of the bell housing... but now... the starter doesn't turn or respond at all with the engine out... by all means, it did a little then wen't slower, and slower...... i think my battery is now flat... Despite the engine still screaming its AM garage...
More issues... I'm thinking.. maybe i should just trade the WHOLE semi auto system in for a manual. I'm sick of this S#%T! I just want ot be able to bolt in the thing and get the engine turning, NOT even firing, i don't want it to fire, i just been struggling for 5 weeks trying ot get this thing to TURN!!! I know hell more about wiring, earthin', the electrical system, the rear end wiring all together, and the starter... but its just got me no where.
Anyone want to swap a complete SEMI AUTO system for a IRS system (INCLUDES SEmi auto SPECIFIC! 1500 engine with extractors all COMPLETE!) shift rods, gear selector etc...
I remember pulling apart the manual 67' i had ages ago... things seemed more simple...
[ Edited on 19/7/2006 by bajachris88 ]
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears. 👍
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta!
by the way, after playing with it with the appropriate wiring, it wasn't making as much of a clunking noise, by playing with it more and more... it started making a GRINDING!! NOISE! and the flywheel wasn't turning nor the engine at all.
the engine was bolted in tight and straight, sitting right on the bell housing, the starter was tight on the gearbox too.
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears. 👍
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta!
This thing was supposably working PERFECTLY and driving around less than 5 months ago... before the engine was separated from the box.
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears. 👍
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta!
there you go theres the problem you f*^&ed with it. if it isnt broken then dont f*^% with it. its that simple mate 😀
“We all pay for life with death, so everything in between should be free.” Bill Hicks
the chaos project - click me
