Did a bit more today.
Put the crankcase together this arvo.
Ive decided to whack in a set of new gapless rings into it tho. i wasnt going to bother as the existing clobber was barely used but bugger it, might as well.
The barrels and pistons are in excellent nick so ill just run a hone down them and slap it together.
Slowly but surely!
L8tr
E
Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....
keep it going man i will be starting mine soon going to use a T28 turbo cause the turbo headers have the mount for a T28 .
anyway keep us updated and more pics please!!
cheers
rhys
it aint just cool its aircool'd
Gives you quite a few options m8 as you can use a T2, To2, T25, T25G and T28 with that flange.
L8tr
E
Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....
tassupervee wrote:Gives you quite a few options m8 as you can use a T2, To2, T25, T25G and T28 with that flange.
L8tr
E
Is there a site somwhere that you can compare all the different turbo's, so a newbie can work out what's what?
1954 Oval long term project going nowhere
1958 Beetle drag car project
1959 Beetle project I need to sell one day
1969 Squareback
Hey TSV,
What about the nitrous?
That in your 350kg car would be a missile!
lol
kkk
This disclaimer does not reflect the thoughts or opinions of either myself, my company, my friends, or my dog: don't quote me on that; don't quote me on anything; this disclaimer is subject to change without notice; text is slightly enlarged to show detail; resemblance to actual persons, living or dead, is unintentional and coincidental; dry clean only; do not bend, fold, or mutilate; anchovies or jalapenos added to this disclaimer upon request; your mileage may vary; no substitutions are allowed; for a limited time only while supplies last; offer void where prohibited; this disclaimer is provided "as is" without any warranties expressed or implied
koolkarmakombi wrote:Hey TSV, What about the nitrous? That in your 350kg car would be a missile!lol
kkk
bwaaahahahahahah you are a fool triple K!
However, i like your line of thought!!!!!!
L8tr M8
E
Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....
so they all use the same flange shape?? T2 turbo's are hard to come by they are all T02's!!
cheers
rhys
it aint just cool its aircool'd
kombi_kid wrote:so they all use the same flange shape??
yep!
kombi_kid wrote:T2 turbo's are hard to come by they are all T02's!!cheers rhys
Ahhh nope, plenty around. Most i ever paid was 120 bux.
Ive got 3 T2's and 2 To2's.
The non water cooled turbos i got for about 80 bucks each.
Plenty around.
l8tr
E
Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....
kombi_kid wrote:T2 turbo's are hard to come by they are all T02's!!
cheers
rhys
day and a half to go! not mine btw
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/T2-Turbo_W0QQitemZ150031654842QQihZ005QQcategoryZ130660QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem1954 Oval long term project going nowhere
1958 Beetle drag car project
1959 Beetle project I need to sell one day
1969 Squareback
must just be me and the places im looking ahahahahahaha u wanna sell a T2 E??
ahahahaha
cheers
rhys
it aint just cool its aircool'd
Actually nah M8. I have the 2 non watercooled turbos already earmarked, one of the watwercooled turbos is now on the car, one is a reasonable spare and the other one has cracked housings and is just for parts........sorry.....
However, if you want a T2, Im an admin on the N12turbo.com forum and ill track some down for you if you like.
T2's are water cooled tho.
Last I looked there was one guy selling 4 T2's, 2 were excellent and the other 2 were good.
Wanted 75 bucks each for the OK ones and 125 each for the good ones.
I can check if you like.
l8tr
E
Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....
i know i have asked this somewhere but cant find it the T2 watercooled turbo will it be harmed by not having water running through it?? only gonna run 6-8 PSI so me thinks not otherwise im aftera T02!!
anyway man thanks again i would love for you to help me find a decent turbo!
cheers
rhys
it aint just cool its aircool'd
Well, there are quite a few guys who seem to run them without water. I personally dont like the idea really.
Its an awful lot of extra metal there containing the heat which can lead to burning of the oil in the housings and premature failure.
Anyway, ill put some feelers out M8 and get back to you.
L8tr
E
PS, not forgotten about the flanges M8.
Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....
no worries man your a champ!!
cheers
rhys
it aint just cool its aircool'd
Rhys
U2U sent x 2
L8tr
E
Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....
Quick update, I have assembled the bottom end now and am just waiting for a set of standard rings to arrive to complete it.
The original idea of pulling thru a carb has been dropped now as the engine is getting programmeable EFI.
I have an EMS Ti-3 system spare now and thats going onto the engine.
Im not running 4 injectors sequentially tho as there is not the room undeneath my chassis and bodywork to place them above the ports so I am going to use a pair of 550cc RX7 turbo injectors which will be placed just in front of the almunium end castings in front of where they merge.
Ill just bank fire the injectors together as in a throttle body setup. No need for anything fancy here.
The Throttle body itself is a 44mm TB offen one of my Turbo Pulsar engines.
Ill have to run a charging system on this thing tho to run the EFI and fuel pump. Ive not decided whether to use a VW 12V gennie, an alternator setup or just run anything alternator simply attached alongside the original gennie. Depends on what I can pick up really.
More later.
E
Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....
Whacked a parallel hone down the bores today, fitted up the new rings and assembles the cylinders onto the case.
I have bolted one head down and just have to give the other a quick cleanup and chuck it on.
One little trap that got me was that fitting a TP top end to a 40 horse single relef case resulted in the two middle/outer head studs being too long....hmmm didnt see that one coming!
Anyway, wound out the old ones from the buggered 1600 case and replaced them. All is well!
Altho not ideal, i might just run a 12 V gennie on this thing. I cant be bothered with adding alternators to the side and the VW alternators seem a bit too dear for this project. I dunno how "dirty" the output is of a gennie what with the bobbin style reg..? We shall see i spose.
Yer I know, Im a tightarse but I cannot be bothered spending too much on this thing.! Gotta try and do it with the stuff I have laying about.............
Ran into an interesting hassle tho with the flywheel dowels. I went up to a M8's and we drilled/ reamed the fly/crank for 8 dowels. I happened to have a box of 8mm dowel stock and i cut up a new set of dowels. Thing is I messed the measurement of the depth of the holes in the crank/flywheel and cut them all about 1/2mm too long and the frikken flywheel nut bottomed onto them............I hate that.
More later.
E
Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....
pics?
An electronic reg and a good battery to act as a 'sink' should see you right TSV
tassupervee wrote:Whacked a parallel hone down the bores today, fitted up the new rings and assembles the cylinders onto the case.
I have bolted one head down and just have to give the other a quick cleanup and chuck it on.
One little trap that got me was that fitting a TP top end to a 40 horse single relef case resulted in the two middle/outer head studs being too long....hmmm didnt see that one coming!
Anyway, wound out the old ones from the buggered 1600 case and replaced them. All is well!
Altho not ideal, i might just run a 12 V gennie on this thing. I cant be bothered with adding alternators to the side and the VW alternators seem a bit too dear for this project. I dunno how "dirty" the output is of a gennie what with the bobbin style reg..? We shall see i spose.
Yer I know, Im a tightarse but I cannot be bothered spending too much on this thing.! Gotta try and do it with the stuff I have laying about.............
Ran into an interesting hassle tho with the flywheel dowels. I went up to a M8's and we drilled/ reamed the fly/crank for 8 dowels. I happened to have a box of 8mm dowel stock and i cut up a new set of dowels. Thing is I messed the measurement of the depth of the holes in the crank/flywheel and cut them all about 1/2mm too long and the frikken flywheel nut bottomed onto them............I hate that.
More later.
E
This disclaimer does not reflect the thoughts or opinions of either myself, my company, my friends, or my dog: don't quote me on that; don't quote me on anything; this disclaimer is subject to change without notice; text is slightly enlarged to show detail; resemblance to actual persons, living or dead, is unintentional and coincidental; dry clean only; do not bend, fold, or mutilate; anchovies or jalapenos added to this disclaimer upon request; your mileage may vary; no substitutions are allowed; for a limited time only while supplies last; offer void where prohibited; this disclaimer is provided "as is" without any warranties expressed or implied
koolkarmakombi wrote:An electronic reg and a good battery to act as a 'sink' should see you right TSV
Ahh kay. I didnt know there was an eletronic reg. for gennies.... Ill look into that. Im very limited with what battery I can run in the car. I have this sealed thing out of a harley bike that has a million CCA and cost me a shiteload! Itll have to do.
I even considered using one of those heavy duty rock box power supply filters on the frontend of the ECU.... dunno.
I do have this tiny nifty per-mag. alternator out of a small Kubota tractor which uses a simple voltage reg out of most motorcycles (shunts excess juice to ground) but it requires messy bracketry which I simply cannot be bothered with......
Pete.........I havent taken any pix of this so far as i kinda figgered that a basic engine buildup wasnt that interesting to most dudes really. Especially given this one is a real dodgey build out of old and mixed parts. I didnt want to advertise the dodgey part of the build LOL!
However, once the engine is attached to its gearbox and the turbocharger goes on along with the EFI, Ill definitely whack up some pix of that part.
Im sure that bit will be more interesting than the basic power plant build
L8tr
E
Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....
Completed the basic engine build yesterday arvo. No real surprises in there. Just a single relief case full of the best second-hand bits I have.
Ive also modified the Nissan dizzy with optical CAS and added the drive ring off the bottom of the VW dizzy.
It fits in nicely and Im using the stock vw dizzy retaining clamp. Once I ground off the hardened drive slot off the bottom of the Nissan dizzy shaft, it was relatively easy to drill the shaft for the VW retaing pin.
I have to further modify the Nissan dizzy yet tho to make it all work.
The VW dizzy rotates the other way to the Nissan dizzy so the timing wheel is out of phase with the rotor button/dizzy cap relationship.
Nissan uses a 60 Deg, advance offset off the trigger wheel which means that running it backwards will have the ignition events out of synch with the rotor button and dizzy cap.
The EMS ecu Im using employs a totally different CAS offset than Nissan or Microtech so I have to measure that difference and factor in the difference in degrees the timing wheel is offset now to arrive at a new offset figure.
Otherwise the rotor button may be pointing into fresh air when there is an ignition event! Its no biggie as its just a matter of rotating the timing wheel until the thing fires with the rotor pointing to a plug lead contact!
I did a trial fitup with the exhaust system (an old Formula Vee tuned and merged extractor system i no longer use). I have to bend the head pipes a little to allow for the different widths of the 1200 and 1600 engines but its only a couple of millimeters each side really. The stock slip fit merged collector will have a 45mm pipe bent up and around to the inlet of the zorst housing.
Remember, my turbo is actually bracketed directly to the engine/chassis crossmember via its outlet flange and all I need to do is to route a pipe up from the collector to the turbo zorst inlet flange. Its all made out of stock exhaust tube as it carries no weight. All to easy!
I sat the inlet stubs in place with the stock inlet log and riser but Ive decided not to modify the stock log.
The aluminium end castings have an inside Dia. of about 35mm so rather than chop up the standard log, ill use some 1&5/8" tube cut to the correct length and have the ends reduced to the 35mm to plug into the stock inlet stubs as per stock.
The injector bosses will be added to the very ends this crossover log, just before it plugs into the manifold stubs rather than into the inlet stubs themselves.
There is not quite enough plain ally tube in the stubs before they split into the two inlet tubes to put the injectors there.
As Ive mentioned before, Ive decided to batch fire a pair of RX7 550cc injectors rather than mess around with 4 x 230cc injectors at the port inlets.
There is too much messing around and fabrication necessary to fit the 4 injectors to the stubs and the gains from running 4 sequentially fired injectors V's 2 x batch fired jobbies are just not there for this application.
Its a very simple matter of cutting out of steel tube and flat plate stock the injector mounts, machining the "o"-ring seat and finally cutting them off to the appropriate angle and brazing them to the steel tube.
These are hosetail injectors and are retained by 2 x M4 screws rather than employing an individual fuel rail to retain them. Makes it all rather easy and neat!
The riser tube will be notched into the log, pretty much same as stock and a Nissan 44mm throttle body will be fitted in the stock position where the carb used to be sos i can employ the existing throttle linkage setup for the F-Vee carb.
The Nissan TB and the Garrett To2 both hav a 45mm hosetail connections so connection to the turbo is easy via a short pipe and rubber tube connecting sleeves each end.
I could re-route a few things and fit a nice intercooler into the sidepod with this arrangement but at low boost (7psi) is largely unnecessary for the added wank, complexity and buggerising around including cutting up the fibreglass pods. Im not chasing any outright horespwer with this setup, mainly just mid-range grunt to have fun frying tyres and so-on at clubdays so I dont care if I loose a couple of horsepower by leaving out a 'cooler.
I'd water/methanol inject it well before ever bothering with a 'cooler.
In the short term, im bolting it all up to my F-Vee "long-box". The 4.1 diff will be way too slow for the potential of this thing but it will serve the purpose until I find and fit 3.8 L-bug diff for it.
Im only expecting to rev this thing up to an absolute (rev-limited by the ecu) max of 5000rpm (soft limiter at 4800) to ensure it lives at least for a while and does not try to shake the crank out of the cases since im not using a counterweighted crank or anything fancy in the engine.
Once I get some more bits made up Ill take some pic showing what im up to.
More later men.
L8er
E
Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....
man u have been a busy man dude dont forget the pics!!! ahahahahahahaha
cheers
rhys
p.s. is it necessary to have a boost retarding dizzy for a turbo setup where there isnt going to be anymore then 6-7 psi boost?
it aint just cool its aircool'd
thats probably a bit overkill but what ever tickles ur fancy
i just used a 009 and locked the timing to max at 24*
and that was running 10#
-Joel
Yer you can get away with fixed timing but its always a compromise.
With a programmeable ECU, I can dial in as much off boost advance as i want to keep the engine crisp and dial timing out under boost to rule out detonation.
Rhys, whereve U been. i found about 4 turbos for you ranging from 80 bucks to 140 but I never got a reply from you and they are gone now.
lemme know M8
L8tr
E
[ Edited on 24/10/06 by tassupervee ]
Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....
The motor is entirely assembled now alonbg with the extractors.
I have changed the location of the turbo. It now sits on a plate bracketed to the top of the diff housing alongside the starter motor.
The Nissan dizzy with the optical CAS is in place apart from a 3mm spacer I need under the dizzy body to space it up slightly
The throttle body is attached directly to the outlet of the turbo and I might make a 2" pipe to run under the Right side rocker cover and then up to the crossover log.
There is a bit of an issue with fitting the injectors to the crossover log manifold as the left side injector is fairly close to the 12 gennie body. It may not leave enough room to attach the fuel hose to tho. I reckon I can get around that tho.
Im hoping to get around this sos I dont have the single injectors per side mounted to the aluminium inlet stubs.
They are a bit close to the divider between the ports in the stubs which may compromise mixture distribution and I dont want to modify the stubs if at all possible. Along with that, Ill have to rely on other people to weld stuff together.
Its a no-brainer to fabricate the injector mounts from steel stock and a bit of flat plae and brazed together and machined to suit the injectors I am using. I can frig to my hearts content with the aiming/orientation of the mounts whereas if I have to get the welded, i have to trust somebody else to get it right.
I also have a pair of iron T3 TO to single throat carby risers which have those air injection stubs in the ideal place to site the injectors but I dont know if they will fit withing the confines of the chassis and/or bodywork untill I actually have the 1600 in the car. The stubs themselves fit but actually getting the pipes in from the turbo may be rather tricky. there just isnt the room there to pass the 1 & 1/2" pipes around the rear suspension pushrods easily.
I may be able to go forward and then curl around and merge and then go back underneath one of the rocker covers but again, I wont know until I have the engine actually in the chassis. (headfuck headfuck headfuck)
These stubs will also require the use of 4 injectors which just double the workload I need to do.
This application is basically a force fed "race' engine and I can live with some low down fuelling issues thanks to batch fires single injectors up to 120mm away from the ports per side.
I have toyed with passing the turbo pipe right thru the fan housing as well which may be the easiest way to go. However, I need another 40 horse fan housing to butcher for that. Might make it the simplest and easiest way to go however. We shall see.
All this in chassis measuring up prolly wont happen until after the next race in early December.
However I can finish off fashioning the turbo mounts, the connection between the turbo and the merged collector of the extractors and the dump pipe fabrication.
The turbo oil dump runs down and across to one of the rocker covers taking car of returning the turbo oil and the pressure supply is simply teeing off where the oil pressure switch usually lives and running a small hydraulic line to the top of the turbo.
My pressure switch in the race car is actually attached to the back of the guage in the dash so its a simple matter.
More later. Ill take some pix soon. Not much actually completed to show right now.
E
Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....
Looking forward to some pics.....seems i'm dragging the chain.
What have you done to the SU for the turbo?
Errm, well, the SU has been put back in the box on the shelf!!!!
Im fitting the progrmmeable EMS EFI system! LOL
As a matter of interest, the SU is a very rare 45mm HIF (center float) SU with boost enrichment. Its a factory modified carb fitted to old Mini Metro Turbo's which utillise a blow-thru setup. I bought the last new on in captivity from Fabre/Midel about 12 years ago.
The boost enrichment is rather ingenius and actually employs off-boost "enleaning" if I can use such a term.
So its a matter of altering the needle settings off boost to achieve correct AFR's and when the turbo comes onto boost, the circuit "fattens" up the mixtures a bit, independant of the actual needle profile, the spring tension and the damper oil viscosity!
Its a very elegant approach and works well.
the only thing giving the carb away is a rubber hose going from one end of the carb to the other.
You dont need to alter SU's in any way to run turbo setups tho, either pull or push thru.
However, to get an SU to work in push thru requires a well designed plenum of the right volume infront of the carb. Its critical to the operation of the SU. I dont know exactly why but the carb will never work right if the plenum is not big enough. believe me I spent years nutting this out on my old 1600 Ford.
Hurry up with ur setup M8
L8tr
E
[ Edited on 28/10/06 by tassupervee ]
Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....
That will teach me for speed reading thru ya post. Missed the word injectors.
I'm hoping to get the engine in next weekend. Just need to set the endfloat and then i'm good to go. Kombi conversion is getting in the road as well
Cheers
Yer my "engine woes" with the race car made quite a dent in my 1600 progress.
Im plugging away at it tho now.
L8tr
E
Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....
man i have been here there and everywhere mainly a move back from brisbane into home and finding a new job back here has been my major setback but all is know settled and finally got the pipes bolted on to see how they all look and sit on the engine i will email you with a few queries i have and a few pics and let me know when ya here of a turbo ahahahahaha thanks for looking out for me buddy!!
cheers
rhys
it aint just cool its aircool'd
