thanx and
yeah, CCing is the easy bit, working out how much to flycut if the cc's need to be reduced will be the hard bit
hellbugged 48's and straight cuts
5,080 posts · joined Apr 2003 ·
The last Hellbug
koolkarmakombi enkarmarising
2,078 posts · joined Jun 2003 ·
aarh yes the dry buildup and measure of deckheight.
So much more work goes in than what you are showing.
good on you mate! Keep up the pics.
kkk
So much more work goes in than what you are showing.
good on you mate! Keep up the pics.
kkk
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hellbugged 48's and straight cuts
5,080 posts · joined Apr 2003 ·
funny thing, but as exciting as it is to be starting assembly, i am going to miss having this sort of stuff laying around the house.🙄
heres what's needed for a tuff valve set up.....
manley stainless 40mm inlets and 37.5 exhaust valves...and valve lash caps, not only to protect the end of the valves, but also provide a larger surface for the high ratio rockers pads to contact.
dual valve springs and assorted shims to shove under the springs and shim em up nice and tight-with some clearance left over. they also prevent the spring seats on the heads from getting chaffed.with 1.45/1 rockers, the engine will be lifting .497 at the valve. the springs are safely capable of .600 lift. they will need at least .150 extra travel from coil bind🤪❓
heat treated steel rocker studs-with a little extra length for the ratio rockers
chrome-moly, heat treated retainers...designed specifically to fit their matching springs
.. and hardened keepers that started as solid bar, machined inside and out and then cut in 1/2 to make sure they will never rub together, and keep a proper grip on the valve to eliminate burred up keeper grooves on those pretty valves. stock keepers are made from powdered iron, compressed to shape.
all this has been packed in a box and is on the way to Ben Durie Automotive, where Ben is going to do a nice three angle valve job and cut down the spring guide bosses to fit the inner springs. he is also going to do a flow test when he has the heads set up.
[ Edited on 16-5-06 by dumone ]
heres what's needed for a tuff valve set up.....
manley stainless 40mm inlets and 37.5 exhaust valves...and valve lash caps, not only to protect the end of the valves, but also provide a larger surface for the high ratio rockers pads to contact.
dual valve springs and assorted shims to shove under the springs and shim em up nice and tight-with some clearance left over. they also prevent the spring seats on the heads from getting chaffed.with 1.45/1 rockers, the engine will be lifting .497 at the valve. the springs are safely capable of .600 lift. they will need at least .150 extra travel from coil bind🤪❓
heat treated steel rocker studs-with a little extra length for the ratio rockers
chrome-moly, heat treated retainers...designed specifically to fit their matching springs
.. and hardened keepers that started as solid bar, machined inside and out and then cut in 1/2 to make sure they will never rub together, and keep a proper grip on the valve to eliminate burred up keeper grooves on those pretty valves. stock keepers are made from powdered iron, compressed to shape.
all this has been packed in a box and is on the way to Ben Durie Automotive, where Ben is going to do a nice three angle valve job and cut down the spring guide bosses to fit the inner springs. he is also going to do a flow test when he has the heads set up.
[ Edited on 16-5-06 by dumone ]
bond Veteran Volks Folk
2,456 posts · joined Jul 2003 ·
i quite enjoy you have un-opened gene berg parts lol
now that is discipline
nick
now that is discipline
nick
lugnuts Custom Title Time!
1,070 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·
at 28 inchesdumone wrote:yeah, that for sure, would have been interesting.
the best comparison would come from plain old standards heads, thats where mine started.
anyone know of some flow figures for standard dual ports?
[ Edited on 2-5-06 by dumone ]
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Dont listen to what they say,just watch what they do.Oh yeah ive NEVER finished anything ive started.:o
hellbugged 48's and straight cuts
5,080 posts · joined Apr 2003 ·
well, the heads are finished, and assembled. Ben is saying the ports are very slippery on the flow bench.
He rang me asking how i went about measuring the chamber cc's as they were reshaped. "why?" i say, well they measured up to be 52.0cc, 52.2 cc, 52.2 cc and 52.4 cc! pretty good for a first timer!!
the best news is that with an aim to get 8.5:1 compression, the required deck height will be 1.12mm,- well within reccomended tollerences-stoked!
other things haven't gone so well,
during the tapping of the oil gallery for full flow oiling, i managed to crack the case.:cry
got it sorted tho, a non tappered insert (helicoil) was inserted after drilling out the cracked thread. this insert was inserted past the end of the crack, and a non tappered oil fitting into that. so the insert will now seal of the crack. i'm told there is little chance of it running any further. happy days.
adjacent gallery clearenced, as was the fittings corners and the gallery to be drilled spot faced to allow the pulley tin room to be fitted...
drilled to 9/16 before tapping, man i wish i had forked out for the proper reamer before stuffing up the tapping of it...
the case always looked thin on the top side of the gallery. having done a 1/2 dozen of these before, it took a couple of looks before i could believe that i was really looking at a hair line crack in my brand new case.
all sorted now tho. i have the mag welding rods, but the helicoil looked like a less risky fix.....fitting sealed up at 8 o'clock position...
i think it's mock up time now😵💫. we will see....
[ Edited on 25-6-06 by dumone ]
He rang me asking how i went about measuring the chamber cc's as they were reshaped. "why?" i say, well they measured up to be 52.0cc, 52.2 cc, 52.2 cc and 52.4 cc! pretty good for a first timer!!
the best news is that with an aim to get 8.5:1 compression, the required deck height will be 1.12mm,- well within reccomended tollerences-stoked!
other things haven't gone so well,
during the tapping of the oil gallery for full flow oiling, i managed to crack the case.:cry
got it sorted tho, a non tappered insert (helicoil) was inserted after drilling out the cracked thread. this insert was inserted past the end of the crack, and a non tappered oil fitting into that. so the insert will now seal of the crack. i'm told there is little chance of it running any further. happy days.
adjacent gallery clearenced, as was the fittings corners and the gallery to be drilled spot faced to allow the pulley tin room to be fitted...
drilled to 9/16 before tapping, man i wish i had forked out for the proper reamer before stuffing up the tapping of it...
the case always looked thin on the top side of the gallery. having done a 1/2 dozen of these before, it took a couple of looks before i could believe that i was really looking at a hair line crack in my brand new case.
all sorted now tho. i have the mag welding rods, but the helicoil looked like a less risky fix.....fitting sealed up at 8 o'clock position...
i think it's mock up time now😵💫. we will see....
[ Edited on 25-6-06 by dumone ]
Stanley I guess the reward is in the doing of it
4,523 posts · joined Mar 2003 ·
This is the second post I've read today where the case has cracked. I drilled mine today to 9/16 but now I think i'll try and get the 37/64 before tapping and go easy. All looks good though.
pete wood 23 Windows of Awesome
6,828 posts · joined Jan 2004 ·
a close save eh? 😏
btw, remind me what size is this motor gonna be again?
btw, remind me what size is this motor gonna be again?
"stoopid is stronger than axles"
http://drivingnotpolishing.blogspot.com.au/
http://drivingnotpolishing.blogspot.com.au/
56astro Custom Title Time!
1,772 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·
What's the latest Daimo?
VW car, VW engine ...... keepin it "real"
35MPG on 101.3kPa
hellbugged 48's and straight cuts
5,080 posts · joined Apr 2003 ·
umm, yeah well, been racing....almost forgot about that motor😏
don't worry tho, the darkside has not taken me😀
don't worry tho, the darkside has not taken me😀
56astro Custom Title Time!
1,772 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·
Thank god for that!
:thumb
:thumb
VW car, VW engine ...... keepin it "real"
35MPG on 101.3kPa
Dasdubber DAS Resto Haus
5,746 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·
Good stuff thus far - looking forward to seeing some more progress! I am sure there are a lot of lurkers like me on this thread that enjoy watching what is going on but not necessarily posting responses! Keep it up!
hellbugged 48's and straight cuts
5,080 posts · joined Apr 2003 ·
thanx for the motivational kick up the butt ASTRO, and also Alan. I'm only getting two blocks of four hours each week, so it's slow going:puke racing and the spectacular chewed up a few months- WOW! anyways....
the heads have been assembled. as you can see, after the seats were properly cut,much thanx to BEN DURIE AUTOMOTIVE(clicky, clicky:P) some variations in cc's are evident.....the other head measures 53 cc and 52.6 cc....hmmm what to do?????
guide bosses have been cut down and dual springs are now shimmed and installed.
[ Edited on 17-10-06 by dumone ]
the heads have been assembled. as you can see, after the seats were properly cut,much thanx to BEN DURIE AUTOMOTIVE(clicky, clicky:P) some variations in cc's are evident.....the other head measures 53 cc and 52.6 cc....hmmm what to do?????
guide bosses have been cut down and dual springs are now shimmed and installed.
[ Edited on 17-10-06 by dumone ]
hellbugged 48's and straight cuts
5,080 posts · joined Apr 2003 ·
at least all the parts have been taken out of the bedroom and are on the work bench (i had to make that over a couple of weeks as well). the parts cleaning machine has been cleaned and refilled, so i had better get it all washed up for pre assembly before that gets trashed again:thumb. who knows, maybe I can start to do regular updates again...i certainly hope so.
[ Edited on 17-10-06 by dumone ]
[ Edited on 17-10-06 by dumone ]
dangerous 23 Windows of Awesome
5,901 posts · joined Jan 2005 ·
Hi Daimo,
What cam and carbs are you using?
What is the lift at the valve?
What exhaust tube diameter?
Good effort on the heads!
What cam and carbs are you using?
What is the lift at the valve?
What exhaust tube diameter?
Good effort on the heads!
westi wrote:That's mad Alan.
hellbugged 48's and straight cuts
5,080 posts · joined Apr 2003 ·
cool Dave, i really enjoyed doing the heads, felt like a atomised fuel particle as i studied them at lunch after each mornings work...🤓...before heading back to correct what i found. i can see how doing them for a living could send a person mad too tho.
48 dells, with vents from 35mm to 40mm to choose from......aiming to limit revs around 6500rpm
1.45 rockers with your ol favourite the engle V-26.....so .497 at the valve with springs capable of lifting .600 safely. berg reccomends .150 clearence from bind for street...
got a berg 1 5/8 exhaust......
i could try and take them all out to 53cc, but that would leave a deck height of less than 1mm for my aimed 8.5/1 compression ratio.......thats too small isn't it??
...so i guess i need go out to 53cc and then flycut back to 52 and have a deck around 1.12mm? (memory estimate). or are the variations tollerable?
Ben wasn't keen to take the valve clearence to bind to bergs recomendations.......i will see what they're at now soon.
[ Edited on 17-10-06 by dumone ]
48 dells, with vents from 35mm to 40mm to choose from......aiming to limit revs around 6500rpm
1.45 rockers with your ol favourite the engle V-26.....so .497 at the valve with springs capable of lifting .600 safely. berg reccomends .150 clearence from bind for street...
got a berg 1 5/8 exhaust......
i could try and take them all out to 53cc, but that would leave a deck height of less than 1mm for my aimed 8.5/1 compression ratio.......thats too small isn't it??
...so i guess i need go out to 53cc and then flycut back to 52 and have a deck around 1.12mm? (memory estimate). or are the variations tollerable?
Ben wasn't keen to take the valve clearence to bind to bergs recomendations.......i will see what they're at now soon.
[ Edited on 17-10-06 by dumone ]
Volksaddict Wolfsburg Wizard
533 posts · joined Dec 2004 ·
Nice stuff Damien...keep it coming ..intrigued
Cheers&Beers
Ray V
Ray V
dangerous 23 Windows of Awesome
5,901 posts · joined Jan 2005 ·
Provided there are no piston-to-valve clearance issues(I doubt there will be),
I would leave the heads as they are, and run 1mm piston to head clearance.
This will give you 8.47 to 8.52 comp...perfect.
This deck height is fine if measured accurately.
I thought you were joking when you were worried about the head's CC variation.
As you can see, the comp ratio variance is minimal...good work!
The lift at the valve will have to be verified, to calculate the travel required,
but I would install them at .100" over valve lift.
You may have less than this, because of the various parts used,
but .060" from bind is as close as I would ever run(with at least one .015" shim in there).
With that cam and rockers you should be able to run less pressure, but I think you will run out of space.
One of our past customers ran a similar combo (1835, more comp and head work though) to 6800 launch and shift point,
in a drag engine, and the valve train was trouble free.
38 vents max...35 will drive very sweet!
Man that is a very supoib combo!
I would leave the heads as they are, and run 1mm piston to head clearance.
This will give you 8.47 to 8.52 comp...perfect.
This deck height is fine if measured accurately.
I thought you were joking when you were worried about the head's CC variation.
As you can see, the comp ratio variance is minimal...good work!
The lift at the valve will have to be verified, to calculate the travel required,
but I would install them at .100" over valve lift.
You may have less than this, because of the various parts used,
but .060" from bind is as close as I would ever run(with at least one .015" shim in there).
With that cam and rockers you should be able to run less pressure, but I think you will run out of space.
One of our past customers ran a similar combo (1835, more comp and head work though) to 6800 launch and shift point,
in a drag engine, and the valve train was trouble free.
38 vents max...35 will drive very sweet!
Man that is a very supoib combo!
westi wrote:That's mad Alan.
hellbugged 48's and straight cuts
5,080 posts · joined Apr 2003 ·
:beer.. wonderful info as usual Dangerous. THANX!....it sure is nice to have another couple of excuses out of the way🙂
[ Edited on 17-10-06 by dumone ]
[ Edited on 17-10-06 by dumone ]
VWCOOL 23 Windows of Awesome
5,158 posts · joined Jun 2003 ·
yes, well, get on with it then!
Pay your debts, CxxT
hellbugged 48's and straight cuts
5,080 posts · joined Apr 2003 ·
Alright allready!!!
the case got a bath and first step was checking the cam bearingsand cam end play. copper face thrust bearings fit A.O.K.
cam was checked in both halves of the case, and a tapping noise when shifting it end to end indicates a small amount of endplay...
.002- .005 play is required and needs to be measured with the case torqued up with 1 and 4 main bearings in place....
cam was a nice snug fit in the gear...
adjustment of timing is ganied via different offset washers, and rotates the cam in relation to the gear by up to 4.5 degress either side of TDC (the holes in gear itself are sloted)...
oil pump to cam gear bolt clearence looks good too...
[ Edited on 6-11-06 by dumone ]
the case got a bath and first step was checking the cam bearingsand cam end play. copper face thrust bearings fit A.O.K.
cam was checked in both halves of the case, and a tapping noise when shifting it end to end indicates a small amount of endplay...
.002- .005 play is required and needs to be measured with the case torqued up with 1 and 4 main bearings in place....
cam was a nice snug fit in the gear...
adjustment of timing is ganied via different offset washers, and rotates the cam in relation to the gear by up to 4.5 degress either side of TDC (the holes in gear itself are sloted)...
oil pump to cam gear bolt clearence looks good too...
[ Edited on 6-11-06 by dumone ]
pete wood 23 Windows of Awesome
6,828 posts · joined Jan 2004 ·
good stuff, when are we gonna see it all run? :bounce
"stoopid is stronger than axles"
http://drivingnotpolishing.blogspot.com.au/
http://drivingnotpolishing.blogspot.com.au/
hellbugged 48's and straight cuts
5,080 posts · joined Apr 2003 ·
it will run when EVERYTHING has been cleaned,fitted, checked, adjusted, re cleaned and then fitted again.:kiss....the thing is, all you will see "run" is the fan belt, and pulleys:thumb, all tho i too enjoy them, there's not much to be learnt from a picture of a pretty tin wear set on a completed motor. when i started this thread, there was alot of arguing going on about how much work was in the build of an engine, what $$$ they were worth blah blah...i saw many people add up the cost of the major parts, forgetting about all the "in between" pieces and measuring/adjusting, that all cost more money....i saw posts about changing cams but nothing else:jesus.... anyways i'd be happy to have the engine done reguardless of wether or not people even read this, it's all about the journey thus far, and i hope i can continue with that in mind, rather than hand over all the parts to a builder to have the pleasure of assembling a brand spanking new motor. for sure, THIS IS!, the worlds slowest engine build:blush
....still pushing in the right direction, the cam thrust float was opened from .001" to .002" today....i polished the thrust area on the cam until it was smooth, re checked the float and found it necessary to "sand" the two thrust bearings to gain the amount needed, job done....
time to check the cam to lifter clearence....wash em up and inspect for burs. these have been clearenced under the head, and also cut between the oil rings to provide constant oil pressure thru the lifters when using ratio rockers....
they all went down the lifter bores in the case nice and snug, except one that sat up from the case, hmmm. it turned out to be the smallest fault in the case at the very bottom of the lifter hole, small enough for the chamfered end of the cam follower to go over, but not the rest,a few strokes of a file and it was gone. i guess this is why each and every part has to be checked individually, with nothing to be taken for granted👍....
as expected, the machined lifters had heaps of room from the cam nose! so there was no need to be machining the case half of the deal :thumb....
[ Edited on 13-11-06 by dumone ]
....still pushing in the right direction, the cam thrust float was opened from .001" to .002" today....i polished the thrust area on the cam until it was smooth, re checked the float and found it necessary to "sand" the two thrust bearings to gain the amount needed, job done....
time to check the cam to lifter clearence....wash em up and inspect for burs. these have been clearenced under the head, and also cut between the oil rings to provide constant oil pressure thru the lifters when using ratio rockers....
they all went down the lifter bores in the case nice and snug, except one that sat up from the case, hmmm. it turned out to be the smallest fault in the case at the very bottom of the lifter hole, small enough for the chamfered end of the cam follower to go over, but not the rest,a few strokes of a file and it was gone. i guess this is why each and every part has to be checked individually, with nothing to be taken for granted👍....
as expected, the machined lifters had heaps of room from the cam nose! so there was no need to be machining the case half of the deal :thumb....
[ Edited on 13-11-06 by dumone ]
hellbugged 48's and straight cuts
5,080 posts · joined Apr 2003 ·
next thing is to check the back lash on the timing gears, the best excuse to start assembly on the crank shaft eva!
yummy!....
off to the parts washer again, grumble grumble grumble.then pressure clean, then blow dry, then oil......
timing gear parts...
once again check for faults on ALL parts......get some heat into the gears and drop em on.....in the right order and correct way round mind you.....
now we got progress, WHOO HOO!
yummy!....
off to the parts washer again, grumble grumble grumble.then pressure clean, then blow dry, then oil......
timing gear parts...
once again check for faults on ALL parts......get some heat into the gears and drop em on.....in the right order and correct way round mind you.....
now we got progress, WHOO HOO!
56astro Custom Title Time!
1,772 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·
Great stuff Daimo
👍
👍
VW car, VW engine ...... keepin it "real"
35MPG on 101.3kPa
Dasdubber DAS Resto Haus
5,746 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·
Lovin the pics mate - looking forward to the next step!
hellbugged 48's and straight cuts
5,080 posts · joined Apr 2003 ·
onto the rods.... these babies are bored end to end as a set for equal length, magnafluxed, glass beaded, recoed big ends, new gudgeon pin bushings done, new bolts and finally weight balanced.......
they still need to be checked for burs etc all over, i found a couple of dags hanging where the nuts land, that needed cleaning up.......you can see here where material was taken off to get them weight balanced end to end....
with the big end bearings snapped into place (checking the tangs lined up and numbers matched on both cap and rod), it was relatively simple to install them. side play was present (not measured yet) and they all spun on the journals easily:thumb
they still need to be checked for burs etc all over, i found a couple of dags hanging where the nuts land, that needed cleaning up.......you can see here where material was taken off to get them weight balanced end to end....
with the big end bearings snapped into place (checking the tangs lined up and numbers matched on both cap and rod), it was relatively simple to install them. side play was present (not measured yet) and they all spun on the journals easily:thumb
hellbugged 48's and straight cuts
5,080 posts · joined Apr 2003 ·
a check on the bearings in the case came up good...all nice and tight and marked them at the split of the case as a refernce point to check they're home once they go in with the crankshaft. (i previously checked the front main before it was installed on the crank)...
....
dropped in, no dramas....clearance looks good, but need to set end play with flywheel before i can be sure...
the crank turned freely and didn't pull the cam up out of the sadles. the tiniest amount of backlash can be heard, but not felt, looks promising.
from the above couple of posts, it's easy to invisage how a helical cut cam gear forces the cam to load up against the thrust bearing.......and hell, i lurve the sound of steel on steel straight cuts👍....
the second halve of the case slipped straight home...all good:thumb
....
dropped in, no dramas....clearance looks good, but need to set end play with flywheel before i can be sure...
the crank turned freely and didn't pull the cam up out of the sadles. the tiniest amount of backlash can be heard, but not felt, looks promising.
from the above couple of posts, it's easy to invisage how a helical cut cam gear forces the cam to load up against the thrust bearing.......and hell, i lurve the sound of steel on steel straight cuts👍....
the second halve of the case slipped straight home...all good:thumb
Dasdubber DAS Resto Haus
5,746 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·
Man I'm getting excited for you! That first turn of the key (if in car) or push of button (or whatever if on a stand) will be filled with nervous anticipation and excitement! It will be all the more rewarding when it all goes to plan 😉
66deluxe Custom Title Time!
1,593 posts · joined Aug 2005 ·
Nice work Daimo, your effort so far is excellent, i love building these engines, will be building a 1916 for my mate soon, then another 1916cc for myself, then a big type 4. I love checking and rechecking all points of assembly but valve train geometry is the most time consuming, but well worth the effort, building a custom VW engine sure is more fun than the PT6A turboprops i build every day at work. Cheers Damo.
This is my Volkswagen, there are many like it, but this one is mine. Without me my Volkswagen is useless, without my Volkswagen, I am useless.
61 Karmann Ghia 2110cc type1 w Los Panchito's
66 Deluxe Beetle 2270 type 4
10 Subaru WRX Impreza
61 Karmann Ghia 2110cc type1 w Los Panchito's
66 Deluxe Beetle 2270 type 4
10 Subaru WRX Impreza