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how many here...

61 votes · Voting has closed

  • offending post only deleted. 9 votes · 15%
  • whole thread deleted. 10 votes · 16%
  • offending post deleted with explanation posted. 40 votes · 66%
  • offending thread with explanation posted. 2 votes · 3%

twoguns simply aircooled

4,275 posts · joined Nov 2002 ·

#571179
it appears changes are in the midst again.

so lets put it out there.

after all the forum is about members and their imput and respect response to fellow forum members.

the questions is...

would you like to see an offending 'post only' in a thread deleted... or the 'whole entire thread' deleted?

for example you start a thread and its valid and there are a lot of points made, with worthy jsutifiable and allowed responses. then you get the one or two that take it off track. now you as the poster looking for answers and direction now potentially find all your thought, efforts and imput gone.

maybe your response may help the direction of this forum. maybe not.
Simply Cruzin'...

56astro Custom Title Time!

1,772 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#571181
What do ya reckon the chances are of getting +7400 votes recorded here?

VW car, VW engine ...... keepin it "real"
35MPG on 101.3kPa

twoguns simply aircooled

4,275 posts · joined Nov 2002 ·

#571183
haha. what about the fact that it has had 34 views and only 5 replies...
Simply Cruzin'...

blutopless2 DAMSLO

2,457 posts · joined Jan 2004 ·

#571201
i would definitely like to see explanations... coz most of the time when reading posts it gets confusing if bits are deleted without knowing why
see.... air and water do mix 😉

1974 1300
1997 MK3 Golf GL
2003 NB Cabrio
2012 Golf VI GTI
2014 Audi A4 Quattro

StenGuns Veteran Volks Folk

2,147 posts · joined Mar 2004 ·

#571203
I thought I read an admin post that said this was technically difficult, logistically difficult and (as this is volunteer run) time consuming..
Isn't better to quarantine the entire thread and then review it at a convenient time?.. If you start editing "live" data you risk screwing all the data.. Surely a stable AVD without some threads (or threads held for review) is better that no site at all..
I personally don't believe in all this libel bullshit but I aint the one at risk.. I am more pissed at AVD crashes with a restore to day's old backups.. The "loss of threads and posts" then is more severe and impacts more people than the odd thread that gets slammed..

"would you like to see an offending 'post only' in a thread deleted... or the 'whole entire thread' deleted"

PS: I have also given up on conspiracy theories..

[ Edited on 9-2-07 by StenGuns ]

amazeer Bishop of Volkswagenism

3,029 posts · joined Nov 2005 ·

#571230
You've missed one other option. If deleting a post is such a danger, what about editing the post. I know this can be done... I do it to myself regularly and I remember Kol did it to one of my posts when I was a naughty boy.

all it needs is a simple "edit: section/post removed due to ..... by moderator x"

pangalactic Seriously Crusin Dubber

123 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#571238
I try not to get involved in the politics of the forum, even though ive been lurking on and off since it started, and even back to jims original old forum. However, as in life, this forum isnt some utopian shangri la where we all agree with each other (thank f*ck, otherwise it would be as exciting as watching beach cricket ) I dont see see eye to eye with alot of comments, and I guess like alot of forum members if I read a post I dont agree with I just go to another post(or If im really upset ill go outside and kick the cat ).
As this forum is one of my 'happy' places that I visit from time to time, I would personally rather see the forum survive within the rules oulined by the admins, with the loss of a few posts than to potentially not have the forum at all.
Any how what was the quetion again?
I guess i will now get death threats from people that love cats and beach cricket, or perhaps cats that play beach cricket.

pete wood 23 Windows of Awesome

6,828 posts · joined Jan 2004 ·

#571252
I've had posts edited and deleted, but on both ocassions I was U2Ued and it was explained. 99% of the time the mods on here to a very good job, in fact they are more patient with turkeys than I would be. So let's quit bagging them and think before we type. If we all do that, they won't need to edit or delete anything. 👍
"stoopid is stronger than axles"
http://drivingnotpolishing.blogspot.com.au/

megalania Insano Dub Head

722 posts · joined May 2006 ·

#571301
I'm sure spook will reply.👍

65no66busser Slammed & Awesome Dubber

80 posts · joined Jan 2007 ·

#571318
"after all the forum is about members and their imput and respect response to fellow forum members."

The only thing you didn't mention 2G's was VW's.
If we could stick to the subject, we prob wouldn't have this thread.
Easier said than done of course.

aussiebaja Insano Dub Head

738 posts · joined Jun 2006 ·

#571363
im in the same boat as pete,ive had them deleted and allways had an email to explain why ,,,so im happy
BETTER TO BE THOUGHT A FOOL THAN TO OPEN YOUR MOUTH AND REMOVE ALL DOUBT:puke

Hertz www.melburgluft.com

1,080 posts · joined Nov 2005 ·

#571372
I thought Andrew mentioned that they are changing the software in order to be able to delete single post's.

But really does it matter that much. If everyone just enjoyed the forum for what it is without getting into politics, then it would be a nicer place with more people posting.

Its easy to say people dont post because of the way this place is run, but from my conversations with folks, its more to do with this sort of shit popping up time and again.
Click the Beetle

jnr356 Wolfsburg Wizard

603 posts · joined Jan 2004 ·

#571375
i think the moderators do a great job as it is
these are guys ane gals that have families,wives, husbands,kids ,mortgages,etc,etc
and in these days of heavy litigation,to delete a "suspect" post for want of a better word,big deal if a post gets deleted
i think they have some tough calls and have to act quickly,for the sake of a dodgy post or shut down of the forum,i know which i prefer

jmho
mark

LUFTMEISTER Veteran Volks Folk

2,041 posts · joined Jul 2005 ·

#571383
I am cat that loves beach cricket and I am upset that a few people on here thinks that they can put sh................hang on a second have to spend 5 minutes licking my anus .............................
.......................................................................................................:P:thumb
Customer service is not dead in Australia.

Always after HAZET & MATRA & VW factory tools

vanderaj Administrator a suffusion of yellow

3,130 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#571422
Folks, we are talking about a miniscule proportion of threads here:
  • In 2006, we moved ~ 60 threads. We had about 7000 members. We only one serious legal issue, which came >< this close to closing us down
  • In 2005, we moved ~ 70 threads. We had about 4000 members. We had a couple of serious legal issues
  • In 2004, we moved ~ 30 threads. We had about 2000 members. We had three or four serious legal issues
  • In 2003, we moved ~ 25 threads. We had about 1500 members. We had four or so serious legal issues
In total, we have moved around 185 out of 44272 threads, or 0.04% of all posts. That's pretty good for a public forum.

The suspended topics can be broadly classified as:
  • Defamatory posts against a member or company (the vast overwhelming majority, and legally our nemesis)
  • Posts about the defamatory posts, most often repeating the same thing which got the original post moved
  • Spats between members (cause a lot of reports and a lot of angst)
  • a few racist posts (illegal)
  • a few adult content (this is before BA... maybe they can be moved there)
  • one or two extreme bad taste (e.g. Steve Irwin)
In the above list, I cannot see why we would keep any part of a thread which is entirely about defaming a person or business. It'd be incredibly stupid from a legal point of view. We've got out of a few close calls by acting fast and proving limited viewing to the other side (thus restitution was much less). The posts asking where a moved post went usually re-iterate the original problem and thus are moved too.

Although it would be like watching Springer, the threads where two members are hammering each other are actually very moderator intensive. We get a lot of reports about these posts, usually from the antagonists and their friends, typically 1 to 15 reports per post. If a thread goes on for a few pages if we've been stupid enough to let it live, that quickly adds up to some real moderation time. I recall one particular episode between two long time voluminous posters in BA last year. If we'd been on the ball more, I would have suggested the moderators to delete that thread far sooner rather than letting it go. We lost two good members from that episode. So not only do these types of threads not have any point, they can seriously damage the community. We generally tell each party to cool down, to avoid starting another thread, and give them advice on how to block U2Us from the other person. I don't see any reason from a resource or community point of view to keep these threads, even though they can sometimes be salvaged. The effort is just too large for so little return.

The racist posts will not be restored. Period. The Racial and Religious Tolerance Act 2001 is harsh to those who assist in publishing racist material (up to 6 months jail for the offender and up to the same for us if we authorized them and turned a blind eye).
Racial vilification unlawful
s. 7
(1) A person must not, on the ground of the race of another person or class of persons, engage in conduct that incites hatred against, serious contempt for, or revulsion or severe ridicule of, that other person or class of persons.
(2) For the purposes of sub-section (1), conduct—
(a) may be constituted by a single occasion or by a number of occasions over a period of time; and
(b) may occur in or outside Victoria.
Note: "engage in conduct" includes use of the internet or e-mail to publish or transmit statements or other material.
We will not be allowing racist filth to be published here, not only because it's illegal, but because I don't want to be anyone's bitch in jail for something I didn't do and don't agree with. I absolutely despise low-life scum racists. Any thread with even a hint of racist crap has a very limited life span. Luckily, we only have 20 or so racist threads. The ugly un-Australians who write those posts know that they're not welcome here and don't seem to try very often.

The adult content threads from 2003 and 2004 could be moved to BA. I don't have a problem with those posts now that we have an area for adults only stuff.

The bad taste items, well were bad taste and the entire point of the thread was to be in bad taste. Some of them could go in BA, but a few of them are best to be left suspended. I'd be willing to try restoring them to BA and letting the BA denizens report those which should be truly deleted.

Our growth shows us that our current rules are working well. For us as admins, the number and seriousness of end-of-forum legal threats has gone down as well. The types of threads suitable for individual post deletion are actually very small. I'm not sure what is gained from having threads full of "POST DELETED" stuff.

Andrew

twoguns simply aircooled

4,275 posts · joined Nov 2002 ·

#571711
jnr356 wrote:i think the moderators do a great job as it is
these are guys ane gals that have families,wives, husbands,kids ,mortgages,etc,etc
and in these days of heavy litigation,to delete a "suspect" post for want of a better word,big deal if a post gets deleted
i think they have some tough calls and have to act quickly,for the sake of a dodgy post or shut down of the forum,i know which i prefer

jmho
mark
i agree also. mods do a great job and with out them we would not have a forum.
65no66busser...
"after all the forum is about members and their imput and respect response to fellow forum members."

The only thing you didn't mention 2G's was VW's.
If we could stick to the subject, we prob wouldn't have this thread.
Easier said than done of course.
except this is a vw community and therefor obviously more than jsut vws will be discussed. we even have a thread on here about anna nicole smith...
i agree that the forum's core is vw's.

[ Edited on 11/2/2007 by twoguns ]
Simply Cruzin'...

Spook Driving the 64 wheeler

1,168 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#571898
megalania wrote:I'm sure spook will reply.👍
Yep.
Just had a computer free weekend. Apparently I have a family.

Now the numbers used to qualify Andrews argument are flawed.
Not wrong as such, but not as hard & fast as they could be.

Start with 7,400 members.
You MUST be a member to see most of the pics on the site.
You MUST be a member to view the for sale section.
You MUST be a member to reply.

Log out & see how much of the forum you can no longer view.
So the question is how many are members just to see the whole site?

The regular contributers would be closer to 500. 1000 at the top.

44,272 posts.
How many are single words, single pictures, single smilies??
I've done it, so have many others.

So while not doubting the actual numbers are correct, they are questionable as a reference point.
======================================

I am all for the deletion of offensive posts, but I would like to see the topic stay.
If a thread is a problem from the first sentence, fine, lose the lot. But it's a minority.

Here & now;
A perfectly legitimate topic is started, several legitimate replies appear, then one or two clowns, generally off topic, f#ck it all up.
The TOPIC disappears & maybe the originating author receives a u2u.

So the clowns are penalised, but so is everyone who had a genuine interest, and only 2 people know why.

My thoughts, and maybe it's only 27 years a unionist thinking;

Every member is entitled to start a topic.
Every member is entitled to view said topic (so can guests but without a lot of the visual effects)
Every member is entitled to reply.
If a thread disappears, why isn't every member entitled to know why??


But, having said that, why does the whole topic disappear when it's two or three posts that are the problem.

Delete the offensive post by all means, if it's recurring, delete it again, lock the topic, & put a post saying why.

The example I used earlier.
Squiz locks a topic with a post saying.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
This topic has been locked owing to continual derogatory comments by Spook.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

The mod has claimed responsibility.
The reason is there for all with an interest to see.
The legitimate comments are intact.
The blame has been place squarely in the lap of the individual member, where it belongs.

Where's the down side?

It also eliminates 95% of the agro "where has my thread gone?" posts. (which also end up deleted)
I say 95%, there will always be someone unhappy with the refs decision.




[ Edited on 12-2-2007 by Spook ]
Well my friends are gone & my hair is grey, I ache in the places where I used to play.

twoguns simply aircooled

4,275 posts · joined Nov 2002 ·

#571905
vanderaj wrote:Folks, we are talking about a miniscule proportion of threads here:

Andrew
if it is, then why is it not hard to do as suggested by the rules, and the majority here in this poll? it would mean less angst and obviously posts that although worthwhile, they stray a little off track, are then kept in balance and everybody is happy.
Simply Cruzin'...

Spook Driving the 64 wheeler

1,168 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#571933
pete wood wrote:I've had posts edited and deleted, but on both ocassions I was U2Ued and it was explained. 99% of the time the mods on here to a very good job, in fact they are more patient with turkeys than I would be. So let's quit bagging them and think before we type. If we all do that, they won't need to edit or delete anything. 👍


Why is it, the minute someone says 'how about we try' they must be some sort of recalcitrant?

I apologise for singling out your post Pete, your not the only one that does it, just happen to be the handiest at the time.

No one is bagging anyone, no one is saying they don't do a good job. No one is saying the place is sh!t with the status quo.

But I challenge anyone to show me something man made that is SO GOOD, that there is no possible way of improving it.

And to prove my point, we are all volkswagen nuts here, but hands up anyone whose car is absolutely stock. Those completely satisfied with the way VW built it, right down to the cross plys.
No doubt there are some, but they would be rare.



[ Edited on 12-2-2007 by Spook ]
Well my friends are gone & my hair is grey, I ache in the places where I used to play.

koolkarmakombi enkarmarising

2,078 posts · joined Jun 2003 ·

#571939
Well, I have voted for the delete post with message.

However,

I do believe though that too many ppl take all this too much to heart, get wound up and demand their rights.

Get over yourselves.

The fact is this is FREE service to us. Moderators do this for nothing, the businesses pay some to help with the hosting however the door is open for anyone to take their bat and ball and go home.

513 views and 19 replies to date shows that 3.7% gave enough of a shit to reply, 94.3% got on with life....

The world isnt fair, nepotism and mates rates are everywhere and I bet those who wail most have their own networks of ppl to wheel and deal with, this forum has the same.

Yes the rules are not applied iron clad to all, it shits me on occasions, esp the bullshit expressions of interest attempts to bypass the sale rules. Heck I could advertise my whole life if the price was right. BUT I get over it and have a life.

I suggest those who find it all too much chill out or better still start your own forum. Then you can enforce the rules, do all the stuff that current mods here dont. In fact you could allow all sorts of slander and scuttlebut at your own leisure.

So, I stay, it costs me nothing except to mention when I use suppliers who sponsor AVD to ensure it keeps going, I take the good, survive the bad and get on with my life. Indeed in my life I have to take the good, survive the bad and enjoy myself.

Kool karma to all

[ Edited on 12-2-2007 by koolkarmakombi ]
This disclaimer does not reflect the thoughts or opinions of either myself, my company, my friends, or my dog: don't quote me on that; don't quote me on anything; this disclaimer is subject to change without notice; text is slightly enlarged to show detail; resemblance to actual persons, living or dead, is unintentional and coincidental; dry clean only; do not bend, fold, or mutilate; anchovies or jalapenos added to this disclaimer upon request; your mileage may vary; no substitutions are allowed; for a limited time only while supplies last; offer void where prohibited; this disclaimer is provided "as is" without any warranties expressed or implied

56astro Custom Title Time!

1,772 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#571952
Yep,

and over 83% of respondants just want the rules applied as they are written.

VW car, VW engine ...... keepin it "real"
35MPG on 101.3kPa

frenzix Son of Jim - Creator of Good

2,742 posts · joined Dec 2003 ·

#572002
Why can i hear a broken record spining back/forth back/forth back/forth back/forth back/forth back/forth back/forth back/forth back/forth back/forth back/forth back/forth back/forth back/forth back/forth back/forth back/forth

It's getting a little old , and your all starting to sound like a bunch of whinging kids. Who cares who typed what and who didn't dot their I's.. it's the internet.

Tim
www.nkcrew.com.au

pangalactic Seriously Crusin Dubber

123 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#572010
Mate, i think youve got it wrong, broken records in the southern hemisphere go forth/ back , not back/ forth. dont want to be picky but im a stickler for details.
:tree

frenzix Son of Jim - Creator of Good

2,742 posts · joined Dec 2003 ·

#572017
haha see , now that's funny. A little humour doesnt go astray!
www.nkcrew.com.au

twoguns simply aircooled

4,275 posts · joined Nov 2002 ·

#572020
frenzix wrote:It's getting a little old , and your all starting to sound like a bunch of whinging kids. Who cares who typed what and who didn't dot their I's.. it's the internet.

Tim
sorry tim.
[*you are right tim. no need to comment on your attitude. i apologise. your actions are enough*].

it is simply about the rules as they stand and them being applied. there is no need for your negative imput.
actually, as a side note, it is this sort of post, as you have graciously demonstrated, that does nothing for this thread other than introducing a personal insult against other forum users. the kind of posts we are talking about.

thankyou.



[ Edited on 12/2/2007 by twoguns ]
Simply Cruzin'...

frenzix Son of Jim - Creator of Good

2,742 posts · joined Dec 2003 ·

#572065
my poor attitude? thanks for the personal attack. I'm sure avd members can see who has the poor attitudes around here. It's threads like this that bring down a good running forum.. The select few who continue to whinge after whinge about bullshit.
www.nkcrew.com.au

StenGuns Veteran Volks Folk

2,147 posts · joined Mar 2004 ·

#572067
"Well one day I was at home threatening the kids when I looks out through the hole in the wall and sees this tank pull up and out gets one of Dinsdale's boys, so he comes in nice and friendly and says Dinsdale wants to have a word with me, so he chains me to the back of the tank and takes me for a scrape round to Dinsdale's place and Dinsdale's there in the conversation pit with Doug and Charles Paisley, the baby crusher, and two film producers and a man they called 'Kierkegaard', who just sat there biting the heads of whippets and Dinsdale says 'I hear you've been a naughty boy Clement' and he splits me nostrils open and saws me leg off and pulls me liver out and I tell him my name's not Clement and then... he loses his temper and nails me head to the floor."

StenGuns Veteran Volks Folk

2,147 posts · joined Mar 2004 ·

#572068
By the way.. did anyone see the thread on my new ute.. I'm stoked!!!

crewcabconnection Being Sid James

1,922 posts · joined Apr 2003 ·

#572090
Delete the offending comment at the discretion of the moderator. Or edit at the discretion of the moderator. Leave explanation if required. If mod not sure, then move post pending mod to mod discussion.

Avoid people who get the buzz off slagging off people and generally they've done it before and will do it again.

If someone feels there is a better way to do it, then go an do it. If you don't like the work the mods are doing here, tell them directly.

If you step over the line (sorry Das, Bruce lead me astray), then read what the mod has said - and discuss or comply. It's natural that people will see things and do things different to the next person. That dont make it wrong, just different.

AVD has always been a 'lively' place ... but stomping on people will result in getting a U2U that will remind people to play nice. Everyone has the option of throwing a hissy fit and starting their own utopian forum if they really can't stick it I guess.
Loves a lolcat