jboy82 Seriously Crusin Dubber
105 posts · joined Feb 2003 ·
Nice Collection Jakriz!
Oil temperature
1303Steve Scirocco Rare
8,650 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·
Hi Shani
Does your top interfere with the stock cooling vents at all?
Hellbus, My motor is watercooled and runs about 80 - 90 all the time in this weather, it uses a thermostatically controlled oil cooler. In summer on a freeway it will see 120-130, this is as far as I can see a normal oil temp for a water cooled car, Im not sure what your your guys a saying, the oil needs to get over 100 to burn off moisture etc.
1302Steve
Does your top interfere with the stock cooling vents at all?
Hellbus, My motor is watercooled and runs about 80 - 90 all the time in this weather, it uses a thermostatically controlled oil cooler. In summer on a freeway it will see 120-130, this is as far as I can see a normal oil temp for a water cooled car, Im not sure what your your guys a saying, the oil needs to get over 100 to burn off moisture etc.
1302Steve
Shani Seriously Crusin Dubber
147 posts · joined Jun 2003 ·
Steve I don't think the top is a problem. It clips on just above the standard vents, covering at most half a centremeter of the grill. I'm pretty happy to have brought the temp down by 10 deg at this point.
Next thing to try would be to change the Oil we are using to I think a thinner one.
She goes in for a wheel alignment and stuff on friday to see if we can't do something about the shudder at 60mph :thumb
Next thing to try would be to change the Oil we are using to I think a thinner one.
She goes in for a wheel alignment and stuff on friday to see if we can't do something about the shudder at 60mph :thumb
Peter Leonard Moderator Volatile
1,456 posts · joined Apr 2003 ·
:thumb
let sleeping dubs lie
1303Steve Scirocco Rare
8,650 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·
Hi Shani
Is your car a Superbug? I used to have bad shudders until I went to uruthane bushes in the sway bar and lower control arms, also tyry getting your wheels balanced on the car. When I ran 14 wheels my shudders were much worse, since going to 15s, 16s & now 17s I have no hint of a shudder. If you car is lowered you may need to give it more caster, the best way to do this by fitting and adjustable caster sway bar.
1302Steve
Is your car a Superbug? I used to have bad shudders until I went to uruthane bushes in the sway bar and lower control arms, also tyry getting your wheels balanced on the car. When I ran 14 wheels my shudders were much worse, since going to 15s, 16s & now 17s I have no hint of a shudder. If you car is lowered you may need to give it more caster, the best way to do this by fitting and adjustable caster sway bar.
1302Steve
68AutoBug Beetle Restorer - Experience over 138\% - YIKES --
11,654 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·
Thats one nice looking and I presume Expensive Whale tail.... Beautiful..... is the word.... I believe that having No SMOOTH Roofline for the air to flow over would be a major problem.. from what I have read , I thought up to 120 C was OK - over it too Hot... and talking about a Hot Engine... When an engine is Really HOT... like cooking hot.. it has a horrible smell about it... anyway You will have to wait until Summer to test it out... Do You have a thermostat fitted??? Anyone know the temp a type 3 1600 engine runs at??
:o:thumb:bounce:bounce:bounce:bounce:bounce:thumb
:o:thumb:bounce:bounce:bounce:bounce:bounce:thumb
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- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---
68AutoBug Beetle Restorer - Experience over 138\% - YIKES --
11,654 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·
Does Your superbug have a thermostat fitted and working, it may be keeping the engine at that temperature due to the ambient temperature outside... and will adjust accordingly in the Summer..... I believe that is how a thermostat works.... although it probably needs adjusting.. ..
My name is Lee & I'm a Dubbaholic....
My name is Lee & I'm a Dubbaholic....
:bounce:bounce:bounce:bounce:bounce:bounceRustbucket68 wrote:Just installed a oil temp guage(vdo) and dipstick sender(vdo) into a 71 superbug 1600 motor. In Qld what should the normal temp range be in C. Curently running 100 to 115 C. Outside air temp arond 20 C.
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- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---
Peter Leonard Moderator Volatile
1,456 posts · joined Apr 2003 ·
a thermostat shouldn't be affected by 'ambient' temperature, it should not work relatively. as far as i know most thermostats operate on a bi-metallic strip or coil method; the hotter they get, the more they change in size/ orientation. should have nothing to do with summer and winter... although if the thermostat was coupled to one outside the engine working in reverse with a homeostatic function of minus three point five degrees divided by the ambient temperature in calcutta over the barometric pressure stabiliser unit it would make much more sense 😀:alien
let sleeping dubs lie
VWCOOL 23 Windows of Awesome
5,158 posts · joined Jun 2003 ·
Yeah, I reckon whale tails are ugly - and you can't take them off like hoodjacks. But I'm more interested in keeping my engien cool than worrying about the looks of my car. Where is the best place to measure oil temp? With a sender in the? How accurate are the dipstick senders?Ben Durie wrote:VWCOOL wrote:Bang! And where did you pluck those figures from?Ben Durie wrote:Hi,
We advise you slow down if it gets to 110deg C , this is maximum oil temp even on a 30deg day , you have serious cooling problems if its at 115 on a cool day.
Most of our engines run around 90 deg.
regards
Ben
Engine builders who say run it to 125 ?? may be don't care about durability.
(my opinion , commence shooting )
We have done years of testing vw engines , if you run to 125deg oil temp and remove the pistons you will see the
burnt oil under the crowns and if you look further you will find much heat related damage.
If you keep the oil temp to 110 or below you won't get that result.
I don't use the hoodjax on my car, they are ugly in my opinion but I have 1 set in stock
if you want them $35
critical mass OK, but critical max ???
regards
Ben
Pay your debts, CxxT
Andy Andy\'s Adventures
2,820 posts · joined Nov 2002 ·
Type 1 and type 4 thermostats work the same. Flaps stop the fan blowing air over the heads/barrels (and oil cooler in a Type 4) and a spring holds them open (maximum cooling) The thermostat is a copper bellows and pulls the flaps shut. As the bellows heats up from spent cooling air they heat up and expand allowing the flaps to open.
From memory the T1 thermo opens at ~70C and T4 ~80C (don’t quote me on these!!). Just remember this is the temperature of air off the heads/barrels and they almost open like a switch, fully open or fully closed.
Their purpose is ONLY to allow the motor to heat up quickly or stop over cooling in REALLY cold temps (I’d guess in sub zero temps).
Here in Oz they will always be fully open after the first 5-10 min. driving unless you live on a ski slope.
They always fail open, so unless the something jams them shut there’s no need to worry.
From memory the T1 thermo opens at ~70C and T4 ~80C (don’t quote me on these!!). Just remember this is the temperature of air off the heads/barrels and they almost open like a switch, fully open or fully closed.
Their purpose is ONLY to allow the motor to heat up quickly or stop over cooling in REALLY cold temps (I’d guess in sub zero temps).
Here in Oz they will always be fully open after the first 5-10 min. driving unless you live on a ski slope.
They always fail open, so unless the something jams them shut there’s no need to worry.
Bizarre Moderator The artist formerly known as blue74l
12,785 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·
I believe the best place for the temp sender is to tap into the base of the engine to the side of the sump plate. This gets the sender into mixed oil and away from any metal lumps that cant retain and/or effect readings.
The dip stick place is to close to metal for my liking
That said i have mine in the rear pressure relief plug. (why - cause thats how it came 10 years and 3 motors ago) If anything this will give a higher reading cause it is near metal and it is in a hot passage out to the cooler. Plumbug Racer on SBO did several tests and this was hotter my 10F - so it gives me safety.
The dip stick place is to close to metal for my liking
That said i have mine in the rear pressure relief plug. (why - cause thats how it came 10 years and 3 motors ago) If anything this will give a higher reading cause it is near metal and it is in a hot passage out to the cooler. Plumbug Racer on SBO did several tests and this was hotter my 10F - so it gives me safety.
Futue te ipsum!!!
jakriz Wolfsburg Wizard
560 posts · joined Sep 2002 ·
Yeah, I reckon whale tails are ugly - and you can't take them off like hoodjacks.
I didn't like my wing (whale tail is so 80's) at first so I'll agree with u there, but I can change my wing for my normal decklid in 23 seconds.
regards
Jak
I didn't like my wing (whale tail is so 80's) at first so I'll agree with u there, but I can change my wing for my normal decklid in 23 seconds.
regards
Jak
Congratulations to Ben Durie for breaking the hillclimb record at Ringwood in his stroker beetle!
Bizarre Moderator The artist formerly known as blue74l
12,785 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·
Porsche designed them for a reason - besides resting you beer on when you are washing the car 😀
When set up properly they would really catch the air
When set up properly they would really catch the air
Futue te ipsum!!!
jakriz Wolfsburg Wizard
560 posts · joined Sep 2002 ·
All the porsche guys reckon that their oil temp doesn't go over 85d on the track!! i think that it has a lot to do with that big cool looking fan as well.
Jak
Jak
Congratulations to Ben Durie for breaking the hillclimb record at Ringwood in his stroker beetle!
helbus Administrator Mad fabricator, paint and body
7,386 posts · joined Sep 2002 ·
1302Steve
My temp sender is in the head so reads water temp not oil temp. I am not sure if or how much hotter oil is than water temp?
My temp sender is in the head so reads water temp not oil temp. I am not sure if or how much hotter oil is than water temp?
azz Officially Full-On Dubber
287 posts · joined Jan 2003 ·
I remember having this conversation with all of you 8-10 months ago...
I dont think that there is a definitive answer.
There does seem to be a huge variation in the readings of different temp gauges and where they are placed in the engine.
Ideally it would be nice to all have external oil coolers in our vw's but even they come with complications.
I have a kombi (2 ltr) and I have a vdo temp guage fitted into my sump. At the moment it is running between 100-105 and in summer it gets up to 125. I know too high so I slow down or pull over for a while....simple
I dont think that there is a definitive answer.
There does seem to be a huge variation in the readings of different temp gauges and where they are placed in the engine.
Ideally it would be nice to all have external oil coolers in our vw's but even they come with complications.
I have a kombi (2 ltr) and I have a vdo temp guage fitted into my sump. At the moment it is running between 100-105 and in summer it gets up to 125. I know too high so I slow down or pull over for a while....simple
Rustbucket68 Seriously Crusin Dubber
136 posts · joined Jun 2003 ·
O.K. so we've managed to drop the temp of shani's bug by 10d . It does have a thermostat but I dont know if its working or not. Is there any real reason why we would need a thermostat in Qld. Should I look at removing it all togerther or fixing it if it is not working?
azz Officially Full-On Dubber
287 posts · joined Jan 2003 ·
Mine is removed and my mechanic says I dont need night.Is there any real reason why we would need a thermostat in Qld.
LOWBUG Insano Dub Head
738 posts · joined Jul 2003 ·
I was of the understanding that it was originally used because in european coutries its colder so it aided in warm up, Iv'e had big and small engines over the years and have never used them, never had a prob.
Oil temp dip sticks I believe are not accurate I believe the best way to get accurate oil temp is to tap into the sump and put a sender directly in where the oil gathers.
my 2ltr runs too cold
Oil temp dip sticks I believe are not accurate I believe the best way to get accurate oil temp is to tap into the sump and put a sender directly in where the oil gathers.
my 2ltr runs too cold
BiX Veteran Volks Folk
2,499 posts · joined Sep 2002 ·
one advantage i could think of would be that if ur only doing 5 or 10min trips it would help the engine warm up, even up in qld and therefore reduce wear etc on the engine? my car (without thermostat) doesn't go over 80 in summer and mite reach 60 in winter on a long high speed run, it runs really cool😎
Craig Torrens 6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion
8,040 posts · joined Jan 2003 ·
Well I have had a temp sender on a factory 1500 in a 1969 bug, 120 deg on the freeway easy !!
100-120 deg would be acceptable, less 10 deg with Hoodjaxs or a tale
I will always run 125deg on the track, Castrol have confirmed GP50 is good for 150deg all day long !
Sounds like all the people racing get similiar figures😀
100-120 deg would be acceptable, less 10 deg with Hoodjaxs or a tale
I will always run 125deg on the track, Castrol have confirmed GP50 is good for 150deg all day long !
Sounds like all the people racing get similiar figures😀
jimmy1812 Learner Dubber
10 posts · joined Jun 2003 ·
Hey Shani. I have a 74 L Bug, and my wheel used to shudder from 60 kph onwards. I got a wheel alignment and replaced broken left lower ball joint, and the shuddering stopped. Would be a good idea to get ur suspension checked too 🙂
Cheers
Cheers
68AutoBug Beetle Restorer - Experience over 138\% - YIKES --
11,654 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·
Peter Leonard, if the Ambient Temperature has nothing to do with a thermostat, how come the engines get hotter in the Summer??? (Maybe because of the Hotter Ambient temperatures).....
The temperature here most mornings in the winter months is around 0C-2C , I Don't believe the thermostat would be open ALL of the time in those ambient temperatures.....
The temperature here most mornings in the winter months is around 0C-2C , I Don't believe the thermostat would be open ALL of the time in those ambient temperatures.....
- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---
azz Officially Full-On Dubber
287 posts · joined Jan 2003 ·
68AutoBug...Do you need glasses?
jakriz Wolfsburg Wizard
560 posts · joined Sep 2002 ·
Ditto.........azz wrote:68AutoBug...Do you need glasses?
Congratulations to Ben Durie for breaking the hillclimb record at Ringwood in his stroker beetle!
Andy Andy\'s Adventures
2,820 posts · joined Nov 2002 ·
Read my post further up the list on the operation of the thermostat.
To answer a few question:
The thermotat performs a specific function, to heat the motor up quickly. I doesn't matter if it's a 0deg day or a 40deg day, the motor still needs to warm up to prevent damage, excessive wear and poor fuel economy. If you remove the thermostat, just allow the motor to warm up before driving off.
68autobug, I think what Peter is trying to say is the thermostat switches at a fixed temperature regardless of the outside temp. So on a cold day it will take longer to get there.
I also think you will find the thermostat will fully open on a 0deg day also. Set it up correctly and let us know??
And finally PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE what ever you do, whether you have the thermostat of not NEVER remove the flaps!!! And that goes for type 1 and type 4
:vader :vader :vader :vader
To answer a few question:
The thermotat performs a specific function, to heat the motor up quickly. I doesn't matter if it's a 0deg day or a 40deg day, the motor still needs to warm up to prevent damage, excessive wear and poor fuel economy. If you remove the thermostat, just allow the motor to warm up before driving off.
68autobug, I think what Peter is trying to say is the thermostat switches at a fixed temperature regardless of the outside temp. So on a cold day it will take longer to get there.
I also think you will find the thermostat will fully open on a 0deg day also. Set it up correctly and let us know??
And finally PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE what ever you do, whether you have the thermostat of not NEVER remove the flaps!!! And that goes for type 1 and type 4
:vader :vader :vader :vader
jboy82 Seriously Crusin Dubber
105 posts · joined Feb 2003 ·
Do check indeed!jimmy1812 wrote:Hey Shani. I have a 74 L Bug, and my wheel used to shudder from 60 kph onwards. I got a wheel alignment and replaced broken left lower ball joint, and the shuddering stopped. Would be a good idea to get ur suspension checked too 🙂
Cheers
I found out that my lower left balljoint was broken:jesus
while I was driving. The front left guard just dropped on to the tyres. Looked cool that low, not much use on the road howerr. And this happened as I was turnin a slow corner after doing 110!
Cheers.
VWCOOL 23 Windows of Awesome
5,158 posts · joined Jun 2003 ·
You carry a spare decklid in your car??jakriz wrote:Yeah, I reckon whale tails are ugly - and you can't take them off like hoodjacks.
I didn't like my wing (whale tail is so 80's) at first so I'll agree with u there, but I can change my wing for my normal decklid in 23 seconds.
regards
Jak
Pay your debts, CxxT
jakriz Wolfsburg Wizard
560 posts · joined Sep 2002 ·
[/quote]
You carry a spare decklid in your car?? [/quote]
Doesn't everyone?
You carry a spare decklid in your car?? [/quote]
Doesn't everyone?
Congratulations to Ben Durie for breaking the hillclimb record at Ringwood in his stroker beetle!
68AutoBug Beetle Restorer - Experience over 138\% - YIKES --
11,654 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·
I always think that if someone has their engine lid open at the top, they are indeed a VW Enthusiast.... and they are looking after their Air Cooled Engine.:bounce:bounce:bounce:bounce:bounce:bounce
- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---