Skip to content
Aussieveedubbers

What are you guys using as fuel return lines? Now includes Factory Type 3 EFI Tank Pics.

0 likes
Share Share on Facebook Share on X Share on Reddit
Log in to reply

vw54 Administrator Always Waiting 4 Friday

16,723 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#668127
So what happens when you get low on fuel, drive even slower?
so what happens when yr swirl pot runs out of fuel

just fill up when you get to reserve and you wont have a problem
I read it on FACEBOOK so it must be true


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=91278&page=1#pid848630


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=63561&page=1#pid624099


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=4832&page=1#pid452603


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=60650&page=1#pid574409

pete wood 23 Windows of Awesome

6,828 posts · joined Jan 2004 ·

#668134
ian.mezz wrote:Really
how many people drive ther street cars around corners that fast to need a swirl pot, its the sort of stuff the dyno shops sell to the young ricers to go with ther monster tachos and bright yellow shifts lights 🤪😂🤪😂
I have two fuel injected bugs, no swirl pot and no probs😂
I can do all the speed limits plus a bit more around corners.
with out any prob,but I am not a boy racer🙅🙅
If your going to race around eastern creek race track on the week end then you may need one😂
what wrong with you lot? don't drive your beetles hard? too many scones? ❓

I used to love throwing my 67 beetle round corner hard (particularly in the rain 🤓 ), I drive my buggy even harder at race days and that's mostly under 60km/h. Last year I got it airbourne once.

As for swirlpots, anyone putting EFI in anything these days adds a swirlpot if the car has a non EFI style fuel tank. If you have a turbo car they are a must do, if not, they are a great idea. Don't diss them because ricers use them. Ricers use alloy wheels, stereos and turbos...do you want to throw them all out too?

vw54, I know you have lots of experience but swirlpots are basic to a good EFI system.
"stoopid is stronger than axles"
http://drivingnotpolishing.blogspot.com.au/

Baja Wes V6 Baja Pioneer

3,119 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#668159
So this has changed into a swirl pot debate hey?

There is a good thread on the topic here; http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=9938&page=1

The only person I have known stupid enough to do an EFI conversion without a swirl pot had issues where the engine would cut out when he tried to accelerate through a T intersection with a fuel level less than 1/4 of a tank. Not very safe to pull out through an intersection and have the engine cut.
Wes - www.offroadvw.net - 200HP Quad Cam V6 in a VW Baja - with climate control... 🙂
www.taylorcycles.com.au - My DH MTB racing brothers shop.

Brad Wolfsburg Elder

3,764 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#668160
I don;t have a swirl pot on any of my EJ powered Volkswagens, I am gravity feeding the VL style pump with a 1/2 line direct from the tank and have never had any issues.

But I guess that must mean I am a scone gobbler and don't drive hard enough on or off road. For all those who have seen me drive they will confirm this.

My EJ powered buggy gets driven about 500 km a week and thrashed around the farm on the weekend without issue.

Out of the several EJ's I have fitted hardly any of them have been fitted with a swirl pot and those who have had them fitted have seen no difference.

By all means fit one if you want, ain't real hard, just something else to leak.
Brad
Why copy when you can own an original ?
Meyers Manx Australia

Brad Wolfsburg Elder

3,764 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#668161
Baja Wes wrote:The only person I have known stupid enough to do an EFI conversion without a swirl pot had issues where the engine would cut out when he tried to accelerate through a T intersection with a fuel level less than 1/4 of a tank. Not very safe to pull out through an intersection and have the engine cut.
Hehe you forgot about ME ... and yes I am stupid enough .... in fact I am going to go out in my stupid non swirl pot fitted buggy right now to pick up a load of 6m fence rails. I hope I can get there and back without a swirl pot.
Brad
Why copy when you can own an original ?
Meyers Manx Australia

rocknrob Insano Dub Head

844 posts · joined Dec 2003 ·

#668177
in fact I am going to go out in my stupid non swirl pot fitted buggy right now to pick up a load of 6m fence rails. I hope I can get there and back without a swirl pot.


now i want to see a pic of that😂

Brad Wolfsburg Elder

3,764 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#668205
Ok I will take a picture of it for you. Just finished unloading 2 Kombi Transmissions and 2 x 44 gal drums full of Hydraulic Fluid for the BackHoe off the back of the Buggy before I went to the hardware to get my rails, only prob was they are a sensitive new age hardware and only had crappy ass pine so I came home without anything, will have to wait until Monday and pick them up on my way home from a real timber shop.

To date the most I have had on the back on the Buggy is 4 x 44 Gal drums full of water just to see what would happen, can you say no steering ...... now I limit myself to no more than 2 and no longer than 6m lengths.

Luckily for me as I don;t have a swirl pot I have plenty of carrying capability left in my 2.3 GVM (or whatever it is).
Brad
Why copy when you can own an original ?
Meyers Manx Australia

vw54 Administrator Always Waiting 4 Friday

16,723 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#668216
. I hope I can get there and back without a swirl pot.
So did you make it Brad ???
I read it on FACEBOOK so it must be true


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=91278&page=1#pid848630


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=63561&page=1#pid624099


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=4832&page=1#pid452603


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=60650&page=1#pid574409

Baja Wes V6 Baja Pioneer

3,119 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#668500
You can drive around with no air cleaner too (may even gain a HP or two), it doesn't make it a good idea.

I would expect every car made today has some sort of internal swirl pot, and even those sometimes aren't good enough for track work.
Wes - www.offroadvw.net - 200HP Quad Cam V6 in a VW Baja - with climate control... 🙂
www.taylorcycles.com.au - My DH MTB racing brothers shop.

Hutcho Wolfsburg Wizard

528 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#668529
Thanks for your help guys.
Ive purchased a Peirburg Lifter Pump from Ebaay, a HP Peirburg pump from Injectors Online and the best bit, 2 x 3mtrs 10mm Aluminium seamless tubing from Bunnings for 10 bucks each for fuel! Every now and then Bunnings comes through with the goods! Im also using radiator pipes from Bunnings....
After a few measurements, I think Im going to go for the 500ml Surge Tank from Tweakit.com...
Now, to install it all and start the sucker!

liam66 Officially Full-On Dubber

260 posts · joined Oct 2005 ·

#669157
I wouldn't put fuel in anything from bunnings...ever.
Is this tubing anealed seamless ? suitable for pressurised applications? Is it even clean inside ? any idea what coatings your going to be running through your injectors?

Bunnings, like Telstra, are not your friends, they're not their to help.

For what it's worth I'm not running a external swirl pot on my project ( ej20 Turbo J and S beach buggy). Instead I've got a new vw tank ($75) and bought a standard wrx pump and in tank unit from ebay ($120). In tank pumps are nice and quiet and with a bit of rework it'll be set up like a standard subaru. Because it's a new tank I'll be able to add the extra lines, a deep 'sump' and the correct boss to take the subaru mounting plate.
I'd be extremly surprised if it suffers any fuel starvation issues- if it does than a reservoir of about a litre or so in the supply line near the engine should solve it. A simple 1 inlet, 1 outlet job will do it.

In hardcore and competition offroad applications we'd NEVER build anything without a coolcan/ swirlpot if a lifter or low presure pump was involved. In these type applications a lot of guys run 'hobbs' type switches (often called idiot switches) when fuel press, oil press drops or temp too high it simply shuts the motor off or lights a huge light on the dash to tell you your having too much fun.

Hutcho Wolfsburg Wizard

528 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#669211
liam66 wrote:I wouldn't put fuel in anything from bunnings...ever.
Is this tubing anealed seamless ? suitable for pressurised applications? Is it even clean inside ? any idea what coatings your going to be running through your injectors?
Maybe your right or wrong. I dont know. Yes, its annealed and seamless. I blew compressed air through it but it seems really clean anyway. Coatings through the injectors? Ive put a 5 micron EFI filter between the Alum line and HP pump...?
I looked around and found this which in my un-proffesional opinion doesnt seem to be much different from what I got.
http://www.tweakit.net/shop/product_info.php?products_id=1569&osCsid=756b7cd5293ecff00577b116c40f612f
None the less, youve put the fear into me, so Ill contact the supplier and get some tech details from them and also ill pressure test the second (unused) length I got at work.

liam66 wrote:For what it's worth I'm not running a external swirl pot on my project ( ej20 Turbo J and S beach buggy). Instead I've got a new vw tank ($75) and bought a standard wrx pump and in tank unit from ebay ($120). In tank pumps are nice and quiet and with a bit of rework it'll be set up like a standard subaru. Because it's a new tank I'll be able to add the extra lines, a deep 'sump' and the correct boss to take the subaru mounting plate.
I'd be extremly surprised if it suffers any fuel starvation issues- if it does than a reservoir of about a litre or so in the supply line near the engine should solve it. A simple 1 inlet, 1 outlet job will do it.
Sounds good. I was going to do something very similar. I bought another Type 3 fuel tank, an intank fuel pump setup (suits a late ford) and was going to get the tank modded up with a small 1ltr "swirl" tank welded onto the bottom with the intank pump sitting inside it. Im sure it would work but as Im not metal fabricator, to get the tank done, was going to cost me approx $500 to get a shop to do it. So, I went with a more "bolt on" type solution. Theres a lot of "discussion" on this thread wheather Surge Tanks are gimmicky or not, but I think it cant hurt fitting one.

Steve

Baja Wes V6 Baja Pioneer

3,119 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#669229
liam66 wrote:I'd be extremly surprised if it suffers any fuel starvation issues- if it does than a reservoir of about a litre or so in the supply line near the engine should solve it. A simple 1 inlet, 1 outlet job will do it.
A reserviour in the HP line between the pump and the motor will not do anything. If there is no flow from the pump, there will be nothing to force the flow through the reserviour. At best it would gravity drain, which will not supply your injectors with enough pressure to do anything useful.
Hutcho - Ive put a 5 micron EFI filter between the Alum line and HP pump...?
I'm not sure what you meant here, but don't put a fine filter on the inlet to a HP pump, it will ruin the pump. The most you should run on the inlet to a HP pump is a simple strainer. Stock EFI cars with in-tank pumps use strainer bags. Any fine filters need to be on the outlet of the HP pump.
Wes - www.offroadvw.net - 200HP Quad Cam V6 in a VW Baja - with climate control... 🙂
www.taylorcycles.com.au - My DH MTB racing brothers shop.

1303Steve Scirocco Rare

8,650 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#669233
liam66 wrote:In hardcore and competition offroad applications we'd NEVER build anything without a coolcan/ swirlpot if a lifter or low presure pump was involved. In these type applications a lot of guys run 'hobbs' type switches (often called idiot switches) when fuel press, oil press drops or temp too high it simply shuts the motor off or lights a huge light on the dash to tell you your having too much fun.
Hi

I ran both my pre pump and main pump from the ECU, no signal from the motor, no pump operation.

Steve

helbus Administrator Mad fabricator, paint and body

7,386 posts · joined Sep 2002 ·

#669258
I don't have a swirl pot fitted to our bus with EJ22. It works fine most of the time. However. If I go a hard right turn when under a 1/4 tank, the fuel goes to the left of the tank and the outlet is on the right, so I get a fuel drop out. Simple fact is a swirl pot would eliminate this problem.
EJ22 into Bay Microbus - Finished project build thread- click on this spot here for info

1303Steve Scirocco Rare

8,650 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#669261
Hi Hellbus

You could use a factory EFI tank if you could find one.

Steve

vw54 Administrator Always Waiting 4 Friday

16,723 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#669264
You could use a factory EFI tank if you could find one
BUt u dont need one just wasting more money
I read it on FACEBOOK so it must be true


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=91278&page=1#pid848630


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=63561&page=1#pid624099


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=4832&page=1#pid452603


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=60650&page=1#pid574409

Adsman Officially Full-On Dubber

393 posts · joined Jan 2007 ·

#669288
Hutcho wrote:Ive put a 5 micron EFI filter between the Alum line and HP pump...?
What brand and where do you buy a 5 micron fuel filter? And what filter medium do they use?
What my garage isn't messy........Well chaos is a form of order isn't it?

Hutcho Wolfsburg Wizard

528 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#669361
helbus wrote:I don't have a swirl pot fitted to our bus with EJ22. It works fine most of the time. However. If I go a hard right turn when under a 1/4 tank, the fuel goes to the left of the tank and the outlet is on the right, so I get a fuel drop out. Simple fact is a swirl pot would eliminate this problem.
....and thats in a Bus! Considering I dont intend to slow down one bit around corners, I think Ill do the safe thing and spend the $200, so the motor has no excuse to run out of fuel....
rnrnWhat brand and where do you buy a 5 micron fuel filter? And what filter medium do they use?
Mate, its just a standard EFi filter. Generally though, filters come with 5/16, 8mm in/out tails. This one has 3/8, 10mm tails to suit the fuel line and HP pump infeed.
rnrnI'm not sure what you meant here, but don't put a fine filter on the inlet to a HP pump, it will ruin the pump. The most you should run on the inlet to a HP pump is a simple strainer. Stock EFI cars with in-tank pumps use strainer bags. Any fine filters need to be on the outlet of the HP pump.
Im hearing you and understand what your saying but 1/Its just a standard replacement filter 2/My EFI 914 has the factory filter (exact same one) before the HP pump and runs fine. Looks like its the original pump too from 35 years ago!

Steve

1 attachment · Log in to view

Baja Wes V6 Baja Pioneer

3,119 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#669453
Hutcho wrote:Im hearing you and understand what your saying but 1/Its just a standard replacement filter 2/My EFI 914 has the factory filter (exact same one) before the HP pump and runs fine. Looks like its the original pump too from 35 years ago!
But doesn't the 914 have the return line join in after the filter? Therefore not all the flow had to go through the filter and there won't be as much pressure drop across the filter.

Just be careful your sure your not missing anything. Not all HP pumps are the same construction either.
Wes - www.offroadvw.net - 200HP Quad Cam V6 in a VW Baja - with climate control... 🙂
www.taylorcycles.com.au - My DH MTB racing brothers shop.

Hutcho Wolfsburg Wizard

528 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#669980
Hi Guys,
Just in case anyone is interested, I thought Id take some pictures of the EFI Type 3 tank I had just bought and post them here. Its pretty interesting....

This first pic is obviously looking at the top of the tank showing the main inlet which hasnt been hooked up to the inlet nozzel thingy yet...
Also shows to the right of that, the tank breather/vent which is about 18mm compared to my early non efi tank which has a 10/12mm vent.

1 attachment · Log in to view

Hutcho Wolfsburg Wizard

528 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#669981
This is the botom of the tank. The "bent' pipe is the delivery line to the pump. The pipe next to it, is the return. They are both the same size of 8mm internal. This suits 5/16 fuel hose. The delivery pipe off my old non-efi tank was smaller at 6mm.

1 attachment · Log in to view

Hutcho Wolfsburg Wizard

528 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#669987
This pic was taken at the opening of the fuel sender. I took a few and this one turned out the best. Ive described the different areas on the pic. If anyone would like the large, detailed pics, contact me.

1 attachment · Log in to view

1303Steve Scirocco Rare

8,650 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#670002
Hi

The factory did a nice job, Ive seen new EFI tanks for bugs on other sites, I wonder why more people don't use them?

I wonder why the factory went to all this trouble for something you don't need? (insert smiley with tongue in cheek)

Steve

Hutcho Wolfsburg Wizard

528 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#670023
1303Steve wrote:Hi

The factory did a nice job, Ive seen new EFI tanks for bugs on other sites, I wonder why more people don't use them?

I wonder why the factory went to all this trouble for something you don't need? (insert smiley with tongue in cheek)

Steve
Hi Steve, I knew you would get a kick out of these pics. Im sure if it was cheaper for the factory to fabricate an external surge tange tank and a fit another pump it fill it, they would have. Anyway, your right. It looks like a great job and Im pretty happy to be using it. Anyone know the fuel circuit/setup for an EFI Type 3?
Steve

vw54 Administrator Always Waiting 4 Friday

16,723 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#670028
i would open the feed line up to 1/2 inch

what pump will you be using whats the size of the inlet on it ???
I read it on FACEBOOK so it must be true


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=91278&page=1#pid848630


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=63561&page=1#pid624099


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=4832&page=1#pid452603


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=60650&page=1#pid574409

MickH Hairy Gutted Sloth

3,389 posts · joined Sep 2003 ·

#670033
You gotta like the way it mixes the warm return line fuel with the "cooler" fuel in the tank👍
tssnq.com.au