Chris how would you do another turbo Kombi install now, knowing what you know from the last time? Looking to make it both as reliable, and strong, as possible (not a 'grenade')?
Do you think it would work out easier and cheaper than a Subaru conversion? And what about performance?
I wonder if people aren't aware of what can be done with a Type 4 VW engine.
If I had my dream kombi in the state of mind I am in now, it would be a green/white 77on microbus. It would be type 4. It would be a mild 2 litre with a small turbo running around 7psi boost. I'd have the turbo and water to air intercooler in the fuel tank area, and a long range alloy fuel tank under the rear seat. The turbo would feed into the orignal fuel injection throttle body. This way the engine bay would look original apart from missing an air filter. It's not a drag strip runner, but respectable. I guess it has the same amount of get up go as a 6 cylinder falcadore. It pulls hills in top gear easily.
This is all an evolutions of what I had on the ill fated valla trip where I melted the heads. That wasnt due to any fault of the engine design, that was due to some dubious carb jetting and possibly the ignition retard not working, bolted to an unknown stock 2 litr engine that I found lying out the back of hellbug. There are plenty of witnesses to that trip to attest to its durability. It started pinging its head off before I left Wollonong, towing my 400kg trailer with fastback on top, pretty much every tool I own, trolley jack, ramps, stands etc, and a family's worth of contents in the van Would have been close to 3 tonne rolling mass. The first head pretty much fell off at Kemspey KFC. I backed the valve train off and continued on to Valla at 80kmh. The other head had died well and truely by then, but we got there. There is not another engine in the universe that would have done that.
For me aI wouldnt use a replacement engine unti I wanted MORE power than an ej20 turbo. If I wanted more than that, I would modify the subaru Its not just a matter of bolting a turbo onto your kombi. You have to fab your intake and exhaust, you need to buy a counterweighted crank else you'll flog centre main. Type 4 heads shit me with their exhaust ports. Radiators on the front of kombis arent attractive. I dunno.
Could never do a rotary conversion because they are rotaries. Tripe and testicles are meat, by I dont want to eat them.
amazeer wrote:Would have been close to 3 tonne rolling mass. The first head pretty much fell off at Kemspey KFC. I backed the valve train off and continued on to Valla at 80kmh. The other head had died well and truely by then, but we got there. There is not another engine in the universe that would have done that.
This is the part that I love, an air cooled Volksy has to be the worst treated bit of machinery on the planet. All manner of backyard mechanics, done a million miles with ill fitting excuses for replacement parts, backpackers continually taking them around Australia with a VERY limited budget, and they still seem to keep on plodding to get you there. It's the LACK of water that allows this to happen, do that with your Superglue. (Not that I'm canning the Jap flat four or even the wbxr or any pumper for that matter as they all have thier pro's and con's)
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
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I've gotta agree matt nothing take abuse like a vw air cooled engine although i am currently one and a half years into a study on the abuse and concequences of no maintance on a wasser boxer i'm pretty impressed so far.But back to the subies vs aircooled vw's whatever floats your boat'but don't call me on a sunday looking for some bit that you need for your subie but i've got plenty of shit for air cooled beetles!
I've been away for a while, but I like the thrust of most the discussion here. If I can make a couple of points.
first up, if you want an engine that produces more than 120hp the subaru is less $$$ and lasts longer.
secondly, aircooled motors are lighter so that helps them with less hp. however the EJ20t totally outclasses all but the highest $$$ aircooled motors for usuable power and torque
thirdly, re racing and aircooled VS subaru; it always comes down to the driver. we have some very talented drivers driving aircooled cars. i'd suggest they'd be fast no matter whether they drove a groupA commodore or goggomobile so I don't think the argument is valid. I raced on the weekend against another buggy with an aircooled motor. Both VWs, different engines, who will win? The better driver of course... Hope that was me, but I'm not holding my breath. 😂
fourthly, most people fitted subarus because they LIKED their aircooled motors but couldn't afford a hipo aircooled motor or saw the subaru as similar but an easy modern package. Like someone else compared it to putting an LS1 in an early holden. so again, in their minds it was never aircooled VS subaru. it was "I upgrade my aircooled".
I personally looked into a supercharged type4 engine for my buggy and the cost of the engine (without managment and supercharger) was outside my affordable range. I bought an EJ25 when they were uncommon and expensive and I still think it was cheaper than a serious aircooled engine. Do I hate aircooled motors? NO WAY. My plan is to build an aircooled rally car with my kids in years to come. So I'd finish by saying that the VW scene in Sydney has been ruined at various points by an "US and THEM" mentality. This is just another version of this. If you don't like subarus, don't buy one, but don't exclude, put down, abuse or question people's loyalty for choosing a subaru engine (I've suffered all of the previous). Try walking a mile in their shoes first and you might understand why they decided as they did.
you don't want to overplay the cheap angle of subarus though. a basic 1600/1641 is a much cheaper proposition than converting over to an EJ. and there's 1916s and 1916s. an hillclimb champion spec 1916 is going to be a STACK more $$$ than a stockish kadron fed 1916.
Pay only for parts with a 1916 and it will be a lot less than if you pay someone to do everything.
Same with an engine conversion. Do it all yourself like me and it will be cheap, pay someone else and it will cost a lot.
Having said that, doing everything yourself the engine conversion ends up cheaper. My 1916 had twin webers, 044 heads, high ratio rockers, parts that add up even when you do all the labour yourself.
This cost for hp argument is interesting but there are always two sides to the coin. I'm currently working on a couple of subi powered cars and one of which has over $25k 'invested' in the engine. And thats without the Motec !..... It's all relative.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
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The $25k subi would want to make way more power than any VW engine would.
There was a modified version of my 2.5L V6 for sale that had a lot of work including twin turbos. It was for sale for $25-30k but it made 800HP and was reliable enough for circuit racing not just a dyno queen.
She aint no dyno queen, built for street and race, with quite a few more ponies than std. Still a sh1t load of $$$ tho. As for more power than 'ANY' VW...come on Wes, do you really think so....
I have seen a few examples of more power from a vw than subi when compared pound for pound of boost pressure, I've even driven some, but I do like the equation when talking stock and $$$'s for replacement, it's just all the other crap that is needed to fit one, it soon takes the edge off the performance with all the extra weight added.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
matberry wrote:This cost for hp argument is interesting but there are always two sides to the coin. I'm currently working on a couple of subi powered cars and one of which has over $25k 'invested' in the engine. And thats without the Motec !..... It's all relative.
I'd like to hear more about that conversion. he must have one heck of a trans to go behind it. 🤪
Renault UN5 trans, 35" rubber, 18" suspension travel front and rear, Fox coils all round, bypass also on rears, all this with recaro, leather and air....🤪
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
I sold my turn key 2275cc engine, did my conversion & came out $3200 in front. I went from 117hp @ the wheels to 201hp @ the wheels in 5 weeks.
But it doesn't matter.
As long as u enjoy your vw each time u turn the key, thats all that matters.
Jak
matberry wrote:Renault UN5 trans, 35" rubber, 18" suspension travel front and rear, Fox coils all round, bypass also on rears, all this with recaro, leather and air....🤪
pics pics pics. is it gonna be street regoed?! 🤓
BTW, Jak, your car is awesome and a great advert for driving your VW no matter what engine it may or may not have.
Can u get ADR approval for those brakes? or is it just for the track.
Also, what is inside a $25'000 subaru engine?
I had my WRX engine rebuilt back in 2005 for about $2200. 20thou oversize pistons, ACL race bearings, balanced bottom end, ARP head studs, new water pump, timing belt etc. Was also picked up delivered to my house. It has 201hp & 205ft of torque @ the wheels on 8psi boost. by turning the boost controller up to 13psi I can get 250hp@ the wheels. I've done over 113'000ks after the rebuild. It scares me daily. Has done over 18 track days too.
I just don't kow how I could spend 25k on my engine. This is meant to be of no offence Matt, purely curiosity. it's great to hear of other peoples big budget build ups
regards
Jak
I dont know all the details as I wasn't commisioned for the engine build. It goes something like....2.5 liter, new sti crank and block, bigger injectors, big turbo, probably flash pistons...guaranteed over 500 rwhp :-) . Then the cooling system and intercoolers are extra. I think one reason the big tag is due to building the first version to 300hp then giving it back to the engine shop still in the same shrink wrap and saying "I need more power".....nice to be some hey😀
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
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look, lets be honest. if VW had a cheap, easily available alternative to aircooled engine that fit nicely in early engine bays, we'd running with them, but since subaru came up with the cheapest boxer alternative, we are using it. coz any way you look at it, the cheap VW engine we see over here are the sucky models. the good ones (like the VR6 and R32) don't fit and are just prohibitively expensive in our part of the world... not that they seem to be using them in europe or the US though. whatever that might mean. ❓
I think boxer is the most important component, then comes modern ....l then ohc efi and a bit of h2o can't be all that bad....or maybe turbo the wbxr......
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
