if the postage didn't kill me, I'd take that Ej22 off your hands. 😢
you know if VW had half a brain... and I think they do, they'd build a hypo rwd beetle with something looked very similar to an EJ20. Just the EJ20 itself is a great little motor and comparable to SRs and the like. They even came out with variable valve timing.
was talking to a guy the other day and there are heaps of EJ16-18s going in trikes now apparently.
And Subaru has just released the turbo diesel boxer. Now you can zip down to the deli for a fill up.
Or grow your own sunflowers and laugh at all those poor sods pickin dirt outa their Dellorto's.
I love my notch and to me its my daily i drive and park anywhere. It starts everytime and i try to find time to service it once a year. The whole turbo engine cost about the same as a top line computer for a FI aircooled with no dyno or tuning hassles. Ive never tuned my notch in 10 years.
To me its still a VW. I get in, its all VW even that old VW cab smell, best bit is it virtually starts itself and backs itself outa the garage.
As was said before, most people on the street and at hotrod shows get a kick outa that its not og air cooled. Most people that ride in it are either hysterical or speechless. The ladies, well they blush terribly.
Once you've gone the conversion, you will wander why you waited so long.
71-BEETLE-SEDAN wrote:How is the money return after the conversion. Has anyone sold a bug with a subi engine, if so did you get your money back?
if you owned one, you wouldn't want to sell it. and I'm not being silly. the engines are seriously that nice. a real pleasure to drive.
and tell your mum you could try and fix something that's 35years old and worn out, or put a nearly new engine from a nearly new car. I can guess which one she thinks is better. 😉
The subi engines are ok, but they aren't the best engine out there. The reason why all the VW people go for suby engines is that they are a flat 4 and therefore an easy fit.
People in other cars in which they aren't restricted to the flat 4 go for 1jz's, 1uz's, RB26's, SR20's, etc. They are nice engines. A well set-up R32 GTR is an awesome beast with an awesome motor.
I find the suby motors somewhat raw and unrefined, that's why I went for my V6. The dyno operator at least year's Brisbane VW dyno day said to me that he was really impressed by how nice and smooth my motor was, and he has dyno tested a lot of engines.
Having said all that, I don't think Pete was implying they are the most awesome engine in the world. I think he was saying that a beetle with a suby conversion is such a nice product as a whole that you wouldn't want to sell it.
The Philosophical question sure is an interesting one till recently I would have never entertained the idea of have an vw with anything but a vw aircooled engine.
I have a 54 bus and it has a modded 1800cc type1 engine 112hp, looks all period with 356 porsche carbs etc, so you open the engine lid and it all in keeping with vintage vw's
But I stared to think about a daily driver, I usually just go for some Japanese ultra reliable small car to get me around, then the idea came to me of a type3 squareback with a suby swap. Still a vw but the daily driver power/reliability of a more modern car, perfect half way house for me.
So for me its the fact that I already have the all vw base covered that allows me to entertain the idea of a bastard vw as a second car.
In answer to your philosophical question about Subaru conversions.
It is wrong to transplant a Subaru engine into a old air-cooled Volkswagen.
The simplicity is gone.
The character is changed.
The car is no longer an air-cooled VW.
VW does not make a modern Flat 4.
A Subaru Flat 4 is NOT the modern interpretation of a VW Flat 4. It's a Subaru boxer.
Transplanting a modern LS2 into an old EH is retro-tech. Ethically this is fine, because the 179 and the LS 2 are GM engines, they come from the same family.
If one wants a modern engine that shares DNA with an air-cooled Flat 4, perhaps the Boxster Flat 6 is the solution?
But of course, it is not possible to fit a Boxster engine into an old Beetle or a Type 3, and it would detract from the simplicity, the character and the soul of an air-cooled VW.
For maximum power and torque, the philosophy of the "Hot Rod VW scene" has been to tune one's air-cooled engined VW engine.
This philosophy has remained true since the beginning: from when dealers bolted Judson superchargers to customer's 1100's. To the fabled high compression 1776's of Southern California in the mid 1970's, to todays monster 2.4 litre Type 4s Autobahn cruisers.
Craig, you wanted to know our opinions from a philosophical point of view.
Despite all it's practicalities - power, modern EFI, air-conditioning. It is philosophically wrong to use a Subaru engine in an air-cooled VW.
Craig, in summary, I will quote you:
"To my heart the aircooled flat four is intrinsic to what makes the car a VW... I can’t get past the fact that the aircooled engine is not just the heart of the car, but the soul as well"
As you will note from Pete Wood's comment above, he is my little cartoon devil that sits on my shoulder and whispers evil thoughts about conversions into my ear. 🥷
I was actually out at my VW mechanic of choice today working out what stage one of the work I need to do will be (suspension, wheels and brakes first), and we agreed that aircooled is still the best option, and that I should tell Pete to stick to his subaru powered tupperware bathtub, and leave my little gem out of his evil plans. 😏
That said, I still don't have a problem with people who do conversions, it's just not for me.
Cheers
Craig
1969 Beetle - June
1974 L Bug - Gwendolyn
2002 Bora V6 4Motion - Anita
craig, since your sticking with aircooled i wanna see capacity around 2L with a turbo or a 3L NA oh and ports you can shove your fist in, & since an angry aircooled is easier to fit in... make it happen before i finish mine 😀
failing that... you could always put a 13B in it 😂
truth be told, occasionally i wish i stayed aircooled, mild aircooled even! but wheres the fun in that, i like confined spaces & a car resembling a heard of elephants in a sardine tin 😂
Volkswagen Drivers Club of Queensland - member 🙂
STIDUB - yep its still a work in progress
Vwdcq club car racing/ and crashing while my bug isn't finished.
If the Subaru engines of today were aircooled, would you do a conversion?
Would you still build a high dollar type 4 or type 1 engine when you could pick up an aircooled Subaru engine with the same power for a LOT less money?
After all, today's tuning on the VW aircooled engines will eventually result in developing an engine that structurally will roughly be the same as a Subaru engine, but then aircooled.
Why do people make such a big deal about a different cooling system?
Water cooled can't be worse then aircooled. 725 million owners can't be wrong.
Although its front wheel drive, and although its an I4, and although its higher than a vw flat 4, I rekon a late golf gti engine would be alot of fun :P...
Lucky i haven't got a decklid to try and fit it under. 😎
Probably just dry sump convert for ground clearance, and with the weight hanging a little further out i'm not going to cry if i'm doing wheel stands at the lights... 😂 Have a little more camber on the back for worries about greater centre of gravity concerns, although the majority of the weight is still at the same height anyways (the crank case).
gerrelt wrote:After all, today's tuning on the VW aircooled engines will eventually result in developing an engine that structurally will roughly be the same as a Subaru engine, but then aircooled.
I see what you are saying, but I disagree with you on this point. The subaru is a much stronger block design not to mention the extra bearings. So even with say, a wasserboxer bottom end, an aircooled motor is never gonna get near the inherent strength of an EJ flat four. Sure you might get near it with lots of $$$$, but you will never equal or eclipse the consistency of factory development, reliability and horsepower with a lesser engine design. And re getting close, do you know that Subaru has sold over 3 million Liberty/legacy cars with EJs. That's just libertys, not counting imprezas and others with EJs. Think about how much they have learnt re tuning, engineering and performance from this sort of a production regime. The comparitively small VW performance scene can never hope to even get close to this sort of data when it comes to tuning the myriad of different VW based engines being built round the place. And I say based, coz the once you get past very minor mods, in many cases the ONLY part of the motor that is still VW is the crankcase and the cooling bits.
Why do people make such a big deal about a different cooling system?
I too don't know. If VW, then the most conservative car maker in the world could get over it in the early 70s, and porsche then the most conservative sports car manufacturer could get over it iin the late 80s, surely a couple of VWphiles in cardigans with comb-overs could get over it too. It really just bogan snobbery I think.
Water cooled can't be worse then aircooled. 725 million owners can't be wrong.
I've delibrately stayed outta this one, I answered the exact same post on the samba last week and it's like hitting your head against a brick wall
Itawolf nailed it, as much as I love my subi conversion, If I could have a vw engine with all the characteristics of the EJ it would be a no brainer.
My dream engine was always a f**k off type4, I even got one about 8 years ago to start rebuilding but as most people know type4s arent the cheapest engines to rebuild espcecially when both heads and the case are trashed.
Unfortunately a fuel injected vw engine with 150hp that lasts for 300k+, averages 8.5L/100km, only needs an oil change twice a year, runs butter smooth and costs under $3.5k is beyond the realms of reality
The EFI alone is more than that.
Theres some rough as guts conversions out there, which give conversions a bad name and give the purists something to point and laugh about but I like to think I proved with mine that they can be reasonably tidy installs with minimum effort and $$.
Unless you hear mine first theres no real give away till the decklids open
Craig's initial question, asks: "Is an old Beetle, still a 'true Beetle', when it's powered by a Subaru boxer?"
The answer is no.
Does that mean, it is wrong to convert a Beetle to Subaru power?
The answer is no.
We love the idea of running a 200+ horsepower Type 1 or Type 4 weapon.
The reality is, that it will be an expensive highly strung beast - that loves the racetrack, then behaves badly in traffic.
Enter the Subaru Boxer - a modern engine, that is a blast on the track and well behaved in traffic.
Many of you guys have proved how well this conversion works.
This thread is not about the advantages of converting to Subaru power or even a V6, it's relates to the philosophical question:
Is a Beetle still a 'real Beetle', when it is no longer driven by an air-cooled VW engine.
What do you think?
Dr.Zaius 🤓
* With the amount of money some of us have poured into our old Volkswagen, perhaps we should have just bought an old 911 or WRX! 🙂
