Brilliant work Ian, sounds VERY sweet. Can't wait to hear it nasty. 🙂
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
Ian,
This is a stunning piece of work - beatifully developed.
You won't be short of KW, but you might pick up one or two with a small change. The NACA duct is specifically designed as a low-drag, high-volume sunken inlet duct, so the ones you have on your rear windos for intake air inlets will flow very well and add very little drag to the car. However, they don't flow well in the reverse direction, so the ones over your air filters will just act as air restrictors. On any 'normal' car this would hardly matter, as the installation you have created is open enough to flow reasonable amounts of air. This, however, is not a 'normal' engine and will be flowing vast air quantities, so restrictions in the intake will be directly reflected on the dyno. No need to change it now, but when you're after that last bit of power a simpler, cleaner design will flow better than NACA ducts run backwards.
hth
Peter Hill
1975 Type 2 Double Cab
modulus.com.auThat sounds great 👍👍
When are you planning on putting it on the dyno?
I'm guessing.....350rwhp
Cheers
D
Thanks for the feedback everyone. I love the sound of it too. It puts a big smile on my face every time I start it, though I really need to stop stuffing around and get the car on the road! I keep finding little things to do that is delaying the grand event.
Based on my previous experience with naca ducts, I ran a single 3" pipe from the windows with my last two turbo motors. They made 165 and a little over 220rwhp without running out of flow. This has me thinking the 4x3" intakes should easily flow enough air for 800hp (this is not the power goal though). The main restriction is the 2.5" pipes that feed the turbos, though even these on a RB26/GTR engine are proven to flow 450awkw.
Im aiming for a fair bit more than 350rwhp with the engine, though time will tell what it actually delivers. The T517z turbo's flow simular to a GT3540R with the 0.86 turbine trim (700hp). Im not just chasing power though, im after response and strong torque from low in the rev range. Based on what ive seen already, the manifold should see positive pressure before 1800 rpm, and it should achieve full boost on the first turbo by 2200-2400 rpm.
2443TT wrote:Thanks for the feedback everyone. I love the sound of it too. It puts a big smile on my face every time I start it, though I really need to stop stuffing around and get the car on the road! I keep finding little things to do that is delaying the grand event.
Based on my previous experience with naca ducts, I ran a single 3" pipe from the windows with my last two turbo motors. They made 165 and a little over 220rwhp without running out of flow. This has me thinking the 4x3" intakes should easily flow enough air for 800hp (this is not the power goal though). The main restriction is the 2.5" pipes that feed the turbos, though even these on a RB26/GTR engine are proven to flow 450awkw.
Im aiming for a fair bit more than 350rwhp with the engine, though time will tell what it actually delivers. The T517z turbo's flow simular to a GT3540R with the 0.86 turbine trim (700hp). Im not just chasing power though, im after response and strong torque from low in the rev range. Based on what ive seen already, the manifold should see positive pressure before 1800 rpm, and it should achieve full boost on the first turbo by 2200-2400 rpm.
those naca ducts will do the job!...nice work to
😎weather forecast please 😁.....
.......the suspence is killing me!
well that confirms what heads i would like to buy. Runs surprisingly smooth for 48mm intakes valves.
Question? whats the CCs of the head chamber?
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE
Sounds brilliant. Might be good to have a dry road though for traction 👍
2443TT wrote:Based on my previous experience with naca ducts, I ran a single 3" pipe from the windows with my last two turbo motors. They made 165 and a little over 220rwhp without running out of flow.
Hi Ian,
I didn't express myself very clearly. I have no doubt that the NACA ducts
in your windows will flow very well. However, the NACA ducts
over the air cleaners will flow quite badly, as NACA ducts running in the reverse direction are quite inefficient and restrictive.
Unfortunately I don't currently have access to a flow bench to provide you quantative figures, but I tested these long, long ago (along with a wide variety of other duct shapes) as part of my engineering degree work, and remember that they flowed quite badly in reverse direction.
This doesn't detract from the fact that the whole car is a work of art.
hth
Peter Hill
1975 Type 2 Double Cab
modulus.com.auUpdate!
FINALLY I have taken the car for its first test drive. It took a few attempts to get out the driveway (in fact yesterday I made it only to the end of the driveway before I had to put it back in the shed again to fix a wheel alignment issue)... But I made it around the block twice today.
I have already identified quite a lis of issues that need to be fixed from the first drive. The main one is that despite having a fuel cooler on the fuel system return line (which works great... the fuel tank is cold to the touch), my bad ass fuel pump is over heating and boiling the fuel. The fuel pump itself is very hot to touch as is the fuel filter.
The fuel temps in the pump cause it to cavitate, and then it stops pumping all together. Even at idle I can hear the pump cavitating and varying speed. As a result AFR's are all over the place. I figure i have either got a faulty pump of my fuel pressures are way too high and are loading the pump up too much. I will be checking the pressure tomorrow once I buy a pressure gauge.
Next issue is that the cam is so wild that the engine barely pulls a vacuum of -5 to -8 inHg at idle and at low engine speeds. This makes map based tuning impossible so Ive had to switch to TPS+MAP so I have more tuning resolution for low rpm driving. Which has meant re-working the maps from scratch.
The twin plate clutch seems to tolerate being slipped a little so I think it will be very streetable enough once I get the engine to run a bit better. It is like an on off switch though as well. I must have stalled the car at least 10 times trying to back up the hill into my garage. The combination of the clutch and the tune like it currently is, it either stalls or spins the tyres. The gear ratios of the 930 box combined with an engine speed of around 1600 rpm and a twin plate meant that I was probably doing 30km/h in reverse into the garage too.
The brakes work great!
I need to do something about the exhaust note to quieten it down. I got a few pissed of looks from people in surburbia that I was driving past. Made me miss the days I lived in an industrial area, where burnouts and playing with antilag systems in the driveway never offended anyone!. The exhaust note has got to be at least 105-110db. I'll be looking at either slip in sliencers or whole mufflers to replace the hot dog mufflers that are currently on the car.
Ive adjusted up the front end to a practical ride height of about 120mm to the lowest point of the car, but the back wont go any higher as the springs are only a 3kg/cm
spring, and are preloaded as far as I can tighten them.
Based on the ratio of the trailing arm and the weight over the back end I think I'll be needing at least a 6-8kg rear spring. The fronts I'll be dropping back to a 2.5-2.75kg spring as well to keep the ride comefortable. I was expecting this though, as the coil overs are currently sprung for a front engined honda civic.
I lost the 2nd personalised plate from the car. I'll have to order another, or tidy my workshop again. One will do for the moment...
I did away with the T-Lock handle on the engine lid this time as I noticed that idiots "namely the last cops that pulled me over last time the car was on the road" attempt to force it open despite the fact that I had it locked. I figure removing the handle will remove this temptation. It also goes with the shaved appearance of the car.
Thats all for now.
Ian
Cool 👍. there is always bugs to sort on a new build.
Question from before. CC of the chamber of those heads?
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE
vlad01 wrote:Cool 👍. there is always bugs to sort on a new build.
Question from before. CC of the chamber of those heads?
I cant remember off hand though ive got it written down somewhere. It think its around 52-55cc, basically the same as a competition eliminator.
hey ian congrats on the drive, i have a similar issue with my cam having no vacuum at idle or low revs and that makes it hard to drive under 2000rpm, car hunts really badly and as for the noise, this is another issue i have with no room for a muffler at all so i have a 3 inch pipe straight off the turbo and its only around 300mm long. Good luck with the next test drive..Troy
BEING ASPIRATED FEELS GREAT BUT BEING BLOWN TAKES THING TO A WHOLE NEW LEVEL....
Hey, did you use copper gasket in this build?
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE
Troy, 300mm straight off the turbo! Dam i'll bet your neighbours love you.
vlad01 wrote:Hey, did you use copper gasket in this build?
I presume you mean head gasket? Yes. I used a zero thou deck height, 0.040" copper head gasket.
ok, hows your experience with them? are they a must for forced induction? having a hard time finding definitive info about them. Seems to be a lot of contradictory info.
I wonder if you can get head gaskets for those people to run thick walled 92's with 94 case/head profiles. Would have to be a wider gasket than the standard 92mm.
Also I noticed you used ARP studs from LN engineering. Do they have the same expansion rate as the stock vw studs?
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE
Ive never had a copper head gasket fail but have only used them on one other forced induction engine. Copper is good because of its heat transfer properties. They will also seal better than iron on ally as well as they can take up slight imperfections in the surfaces. There is a lot of info on shoptalkforums about them, you just need to sift through all the crap. Sean Geers (geers engineering) make custom sized copper head gaskets, any size or thickness as well. You could also spray the rings with hylomar after annealing for the ultimate seal.
My cylinders are a good deal shorter than cut to length cylinders on a standard engine let alone a stroker engine(probably 2/3rds the length). This is because of the massively raised deck of the oxy boxer case. As they are shorter they expand less. I am more concerned with having a stud system that would support high boost operation. ARP do that job nicely. There is no chance the studs will pull the inserts out of the oxy boxer case either. The case has massive inserts that go into the case much further than the inserts do on a T1 case. Have a look at the Rocky Jennings website to see how the offset stud inserts are put into a case to allow the use of 10mm head studs.
I did find last night that LN worked with ARP to specially develop these studs to work with their nickies cylinders.
So I guess that confirms which ones I will be using, also GB make custom CrMo studs specially made to expand in the same way.
Thanks for the info, I book marked geers engineering for later reference.
btw how much did your project cost out of curiosity?
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE
Crongrats yet again dude... A huge milestone getting it on the road...
..oh, and isn't the old saying 'If you needto ask you can't afford' 🙄
Reub
Thanks comments dude!
I was going to say it cost less than my last girlfriend... but that would probably be a lie!
Truthfully it has cost nothing (At least thats what I tell myself!), as I havent kept a single receipt since starting the project.
LMAO 😂
come on a guess at least. what 100k, 150k?
5 buks?
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE
^^^ I don't really see how that is funny??
It's not always the type of thing to ask.... maybe how much the engine cost, but not the whole build...
I dunno anything about you vlad, but if you have a race car, or a resto car - people generally avoid adding it up. they dont do it to make money, because they wont, they will lose money, you do it to enjoy it. 🙂
and, no one likes a copy cat, so, if you have plans... you should be able to work out how much stuff will cost...
To me it is the same as asking someone how much they spent on food and drinks for the last 10 years.
I doubt anyone would keep tabs.
Pus it is more important than food and water.
Looks awesome out in the open Ian!
westi wrote:That's mad Alan.
My god its phat!!!! A whole other league this build to be sure..... And 30kmh in reverse sounds handy! 😂😂
colonel mustard wrote:^^^ I don't really see how that is funny??
It's not always the type of thing to ask.... maybe how much the engine cost, but not the whole build...
I dunno anything about you vlad, but if you have a race car, or a resto car - people generally avoid adding it up. they dont do it to make money, because they wont, they will lose money, you do it to enjoy it. 🙂
and, no one likes a copy cat, so, if you have plans... you should be able to work out how much stuff will cost...
I just wanted an idea of the cost involved. So I have a ballpark figure to work towards, then go blow it all on a build of my own. Don't worry about copy paste, Beetles are not my thing type 3's are. Not even the engine will resemble 2443TT's engine. I was asking some advice that is all. I always get this shit in Australian forums
😬
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE
Machines like this are way out of all but a few's realm of affordability....
There'd be over 15-20k in the engine alone!.... Factor 10-20k for body mods, paint and panel, 10k+ for chassis, 5-6k for trans, 2-3k for wheels and tires, 2k for brakes.... And then there is all the incidentals... Then there's the hours....
I'd have to add that this is very conservative estimates...
You getting the picture?... You can now see why people don't ask 'how much'?
I wasn't trying to be rude mate.
It's just that there are some cars that you don't ask how much it cost. Everyone has different ideas of what they want to do, and everyone has different contacts and skills.
I agree with what Humpty is saying. 🙂
If you really want to know what a certain aspect of this build costs, Pm 2443tt 🙂
15-20k in the motor alone!!!👍 wow thats a fair bit less than I expected.
but the rest seem to be exactly what I estimated. hmmm?? sweet!
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE
Based on all the good rules of cost estimating ... double it $
Yep. I know that one already.
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE
