gearbox, clutch engagment issues,HELP....

cnfabo Custom Title Time!

1,353 posts · joined Apr 2008 · 5 Sep 2010, 6:08 pm

#800571

WELL I DONT KNOW WHAT IT IS WITH ME AND VOLKSIES BUT I SEEM TO RUN INTO PROBLEMS THAT NO ONE HAS A IDEA HOW TO HELP ME....GGRRR

LETS JUST SAY IVE DONE A IRS CONVERSION AND NOW INSTALLED A IRS BOX "PAZZANS OLD BOX" WITH LATER STYLE THROW OUT BEARING..THE REAR OBVIOUSLY WAS A SWINGER WITH THE EARLIER T/O BEARING SO I TOOK THE RING AND SPIRAL WASHER OFF THE THE PRESSURE PLATE AND NO MATTER HOW MUCH I ADJUST THE CLUCH UP THE GEARS JUST WILL NOT INGAGE..EVEN IF I START IT IN FIRST WITH THE CLUTCH IN, THE GEAR GRINDS AND POPS STRAIGHT OUT WITH MY FOOT STILL DOWN...WTF????? THEN WHEN I SWITCH IT OF AND TRY AND GO THROUGH THE GEARS THEY JUST WONT BUDGE....

IT STILL HAS THE SQUARE COUPLING ON THE SHIFT ROD...

WELL HOPE SOMEONE CAN HELP,ITS BEEN A POOP WEEKEND, WEATHERS GREAT AND IM STUCK TRYING TI FIGURE THIS OUT.....NOT TO MENTION I INSTALED THE ENGINE YESTY THEN A PISTON OR TWO WAS HITTING THE COPPER HEAD GASKETS,SO OUT IT CAME THIS MORN...THEN BACK IN AGAIN...

cnfabo Custom Title Time!

1,353 posts · joined Apr 2008 · 5 Sep 2010, 10:06 pm

#800637

bumpsy, thought id get some brains ticking...

anyways, a friend said maybe the hockey stick isnt aligned properly prior to instalation.... ????

1500S Custom Title Time!

1,418 posts · joined Mar 2005 · 5 Sep 2010, 10:20 pm

#800646

cnfabo wrote:bumpsy, thought id get some brains ticking...

anyways, a friend said maybe the hockey stick isnt aligned properly prior to instalation.... ????

You don't indicate what type of VW it is. However, you could be right and different models have different lock bolt positions where the coupler goes onto the hockey stick. I had that problem back in the 90s when I got an exchange transmission for a Type 3 and it had a Bug front end on the box. Only found it after all was back together. Had to drill another dimple.

DH

cnfabo Custom Title Time!

1,353 posts · joined Apr 2008 · 5 Sep 2010, 10:22 pm

#800647

its in my bug,and the box came out of pazzans race beetle ...

bevoracing Officially Full-On Dubber

327 posts · joined Jan 2009 · 5 Sep 2010, 10:39 pm

#800653

No, there’s something weird going on there mate. Sounds like you have a couple of problems. I like the hockey stick thing, perhaps combined with the stick and lockout plate position which may have to be re-set. The first thing is to get it going in and out of all gears nice and smoothly without the engine in, or running, then go for the clutch issue.
As for the clutch it seems you may not be able get the clutch to release for some reason. There are usually 4 reasons for this.
1 – The throw out bearing isn’t pushing the clutch diaphragm in far enough. (see below)
2 – The flywheel isn’t running true, something jammed between the flywheel and the crank on one side or the surface was ground out of square etc, makes the clutch plate drag, it happens.
3 – The clutch plate centre spline is “bent” so the plate runs out, usually from an “incident” during engine removal or install, again, causes the clutch plate to drag. Try putting the clutch plate on the shaft and spin it, you’ll see if it’s badly bent.
4 – The motor isn’t bolted up correctly, yes, that happens too, strange as it may sound I’ve seen them jammed out on one side.

Me, I’ll go with number 1. I’m no expert on IRS clutch setups but I suspect you’ve got one of the parts wrong somewhere. You are using the IRS throw out bearing and it’s carrier? Have a close look and make sure you’re using all the correct IRS stuff, not a combination. Then double check everything.
Good Luck

Country Buggy King & Link Pin Overhauls, Type 1 & 2 King Pins, General Machining.
http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=74138
My car is KO813

1500S Custom Title Time!

1,418 posts · joined Mar 2005 · 6 Sep 2010, 4:44 pm

#800737

bevoracing wrote:No, there’s something weird going on there mate. Sounds like you have a couple of problems. I like the hockey stick thing, perhaps combined with the stick and lockout plate position which may have to be re-set. The first thing is to get it going in and out of all gears nice and smoothly without the engine in, or running, then go for the clutch issue.
As for the clutch it seems you may not be able get the clutch to release for some reason. There are usually 4 reasons for this.
1 – The throw out bearing isn’t pushing the clutch diaphragm in far enough. (see below)
2 – The flywheel isn’t running true, something jammed between the flywheel and the crank on one side or the surface was ground out of square etc, makes the clutch plate drag, it happens.
3 – The clutch plate centre spline is “bent” so the plate runs out, usually from an “incident” during engine removal or install, again, causes the clutch plate to drag. Try putting the clutch plate on the shaft and spin it, you’ll see if it’s badly bent.
4 – The motor isn’t bolted up correctly, yes, that happens too, strange as it may sound I’ve seen them jammed out on one side.

Me, I’ll go with number 1. I’m no expert on IRS clutch setups but I suspect you’ve got one of the parts wrong somewhere. You are using the IRS throw out bearing and it’s carrier? Have a close look and make sure you’re using all the correct IRS stuff, not a combination. Then double check everything.
Good Luck

Adding to this, if he has changed to a later throwout bearing setup, doesn't it have to have the bearing guide over the input shaft so that the bearing lines up with the clutch diaphragm centre? Just a memory of the later setups as the guide had to be parted off to use early model clutch parts as the tube fouled on the washer bore on the pressure plate.

DH

cnfabo Custom Title Time!

1,353 posts · joined Apr 2008 · 6 Sep 2010, 7:47 pm

#800777

1500s, i have got the sleeve on,...

where is dangerous when u need him.......

i put the clutch and pressure plate on with a input shaft, check....

engines all the way in, check.....

bowden tube has correct bend in it, check.....

tried varies clutch adjustments and now have it adjusted up to one inch free play, check......

hockey stick isnt sitting in its groove properly,,hhhmmm...

is there such thing as different shift rod lenghts when going from swing axle to irs....????

and why could i get gears with the car off but not when it was on,,hhhmmm????

DANGEROUS.........WHERE ARE YOU.....

1500S Custom Title Time!

1,418 posts · joined Mar 2005 · 6 Sep 2010, 8:01 pm

#800788

Another thought. Without trying to get into any gear, can the engine start and run when the gears are at neutral position or does it stall when you let the clutch out? By the way, what area are you in? Profile update could get help easier!

DH

cnfabo Custom Title Time!

1,353 posts · joined Apr 2008 · 6 Sep 2010, 8:37 pm

#800807

engine runs fine....and .im in perth......

cnfabo Custom Title Time!

1,353 posts · joined Apr 2008 · 6 Sep 2010, 8:40 pm

#800809

maybe ill try a bigger bend in the bowden tube.....

1500S Custom Title Time!

1,418 posts · joined Mar 2005 · 6 Sep 2010, 9:20 pm

#800824

cnfabo wrote:maybe ill try a bigger bend in the bowden tube.....

That's not the problem. The bend only allows for the transmission movement which will cause clutch shudder when taking off if it's not enough.

I've seen one years ago that had the reverse selector bumped into gear so there was no neutral. The gearbox was in reverse all the time and when a forward gear was selected it locked everything up.

Can't remember without looking back but if you've gone to the later throwout race with the long guide tube, did you change the fork assy in the bellhousing to suit? The later one sits on bumps whereas the early is in recesses... but you knew that! Just trying to rule out all possibilities.

DH

cnfabo Custom Title Time!

1,353 posts · joined Apr 2008 · 6 Sep 2010, 10:04 pm

#800837

the clutch fork,t/o bearing and sleave havent been touched in the bellhousing...thats how pazzan had it and thats how i installed it....

confussing one......

ill have a play tomorrow arvy... thanks for the help so far....

1500S Custom Title Time!

1,418 posts · joined Mar 2005 · 6 Sep 2010, 11:03 pm

#800857

I know you said most of it back in post 1 but better to run through it again to be sure!

NOW

Pull the engine and replace the pressure plate as there doesn't seem to be anything else you have modified (your words: took ring and spiral washer off). Also, what about the shift rod again. Is the coupler right home on the hockey stick and the set screw in place?

DH

dangerous 23 Windows of Awesome

5,901 posts · joined Jan 2005 · 7 Sep 2010, 5:47 am

#800865

cnfabo wrote:DANGEROUS.........WHERE ARE YOU.....

I am here,
but here is not a lot that I can add to what has been said already.

or perhaps....

It simply sounds like your pressure plate
is not totally disengaging from the disc.

Provided there is not a fault with the gearbox
or the clutch itself,
pull the engine and have a look at the Flywheel nut(bolt).

Some of those aftermarket "gland nuts " have
interference with the input shaft splines
and need added clearance.
you will see marks on the edgeof the splines.

Also make sure your new welded in IRS pivot boxes
have not damaged the clutch tube in the tunnel.

Also if OVER ADJUSTED,
the clutch fingers can rub on the disc when fully depressed,
and behave just like being under adjusted.

Check the free play at the clutch arm,
if correct you should be able to push on the lever by hand
and hear the tick-tick (when you push the lever),
of the sound of the bearing against the clutch fingers.

westi wrote:That's mad Alan.

cnfabo Custom Title Time!

1,353 posts · joined Apr 2008 · 7 Sep 2010, 9:11 am

#800879

okay thanks boys, ill check the things that dont involve the engine coming out first today in the arvo .then ill get back to you...

oh one thing,,when i was swing axle i kept turning diaghrams inside out even when i had factory spec and a bit less adjustment on the clutch.so i went to alot more free play and it seemed to fix that....dont know if that has anything to do with it....

1500S Custom Title Time!

1,418 posts · joined Mar 2005 · 7 Sep 2010, 11:33 am

#800891

cnfabo wrote:okay thanks boys, ill check the things that dont involve the engine coming out first today in the arvo .then ill get back to you...

oh one thing,,when i was swing axle i kept turning diaghrams inside out even when i had factory spec and a bit less adjustment on the clutch.so i went to alot more free play and it seemed to fix that....dont know if that has anything to do with it....

Seem to recall there are a couple of different length levers on the fork depending if it's old or new pedal inside. Maybe only a Type 3 thing and not a Bug? If the lever is short it would give more movement for pedal input at the throwout race so maybe why you have been turning things inside out.

Worth a look.

DH

matberry Moderator Go hard or go home

8,114 posts · joined Mar 2006 · 7 Sep 2010, 12:12 pm

#800897

I'm wondering if it got jambed in two gears at once during transport??? Seen it before.

Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE

Camo Custom Title Time!

1,936 posts · joined Oct 2007 · 7 Sep 2010, 1:05 pm

#800901

You said the gearbox is grinding and popping out of gear even with you foot on the clutch. It shouldn't pop out of gear even with you foot off the clutch, sounds like something to do with the gearbox more so if you ask me. Not saying the clutch is disengaging properly either. I think you need to pull the engine out for starters :-(

Sorry I cant help anymore, Kev

I thought rebuilding a VW would be cheap - Shit I was wrong, just don't let the wife know !!!!

Click here for my (slowy) modded 1961 Beetle build.

Craig Torrens 6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion

8,040 posts · joined Jan 2003 · 7 Sep 2010, 5:12 pm

#800933

bummer.

cnfabo Custom Title Time!

1,353 posts · joined Apr 2008 · 7 Sep 2010, 6:09 pm

#800947

alrighty, everything will come out by the weekend and ill update then.....better not be the box....

thanks guys..........

cnfabo Custom Title Time!

1,353 posts · joined Apr 2008 · 11 Sep 2010, 5:34 pm

#801640

everything is back in and running great...

anyways the problem was the input shaft, the gradual step up to the splines "part" was interfering with the gland nut bearing, so the input shaft was spinning with the flywheel...out came the sanding disc and off came the unwanted material....didnt need much though....

thanks guys for all the help, muchly appreciated....

bevoracing Officially Full-On Dubber

327 posts · joined Jan 2009 · 12 Sep 2010, 12:36 pm

#801720

Looks like the lolly pop goes to Dangerous. Good call Dave. I think we’ve all learned something. That’s what forums are for. Good luck cnfabo.

Country Buggy King & Link Pin Overhauls, Type 1 & 2 King Pins, General Machining.
http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=74138
My car is KO813

PAZZAN Wolfsburg Wizard

592 posts · joined Jan 2008 · 16 Sep 2010, 7:24 pm

#802703

nice to hear he is enjoying the gearbox now running like a dream👍

cnfabo Custom Title Time!

1,353 posts · joined Apr 2008 · 16 Sep 2010, 8:34 pm

#802718

yep, thanks paul....ratios are very fun,and the revs are not any higher on the freeway then when i had my stock box.. but i sold my street tyres and fuchs to afford the box,so now im running my semi slicks on on the street..:😬 bad idea..