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Jezebel's next evolution - Haltech EFI [dyno chart up 5/10]

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dangerous 23 Windows of Awesome

5,901 posts · joined Jan 2005 ·

#804592
Geting pretty exciting Dave!

Craig Torrens wrote:Regardless of whether the HP figures are "real HP" they still gained a 7% increase over the base run........interesting.........although it could have been the result of the smaller pulley they used 😂
I agree that the smaller pulley would likely have a more measurable gain.
Although in Dave's case, the pulley diameter is only one size down from stock....''power pulley size" from memory.

I love percentages but in this case it does not mean a lot.
More, it is just a way to say stuff that sounds better...in some cases.
400% of zero=zero.😂

Despite what they "said" and what actually IS the case are likely two different things,😂
so i would not get excited about HP or percentages.

I dont know why some retailers cant just sell something on its merits.😬
It is a good unit,
and fits very well without having to resort to a lot of plumbing or very small pulley,
but wont solve poverty or find a cure for aids.
westi wrote:That's mad Alan.

Craig Torrens 6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion

8,040 posts · joined Jan 2003 ·

#804607
dangerous wrote:Geting pretty exciting Dave!

Craig Torrens wrote:Regardless of whether the HP figures are "real HP" they still gained a 7% increase over the base run........interesting.........although it could have been the result of the smaller pulley they used 😂
I agree that the smaller pulley would likely have a more measurable gain.
Although in Dave's case, the pulley diameter is only one size down from stock....''power pulley size" from memory.

I love percentages but in this case it does not mean a lot.
More, it is just a way to say stuff that sounds better...in some cases.
400% of zero=zero.😂

Despite what they "said" and what actually IS the case are likely two different things,😂
so i would not get excited about HP or percentages.

I dont know why some retailers cant just sell something on its merits.😬
It is a good unit,
and fits very well without having to resort to a lot of plumbing or very small pulley,
but wont solve poverty or find a cure for aids.

Re Percentages:

They achieved a (claimed) increase of 9hp from the base dyno run by just fitting (claimed) the dry sump kit....which represents an increase of 7%.....so in this case that 'means a lot'. Percentage is always the best way to measure/ equalise an improvement

My point re the pulley, is that the dry sump kit may not have been the only item changed for the comparison test. (unless the smaller pulley was used for the first run as well, although that has been conveniently left out of the photo's!).......I'm not referencing Daves car, just CB's motor.

The 7% gain is not based on "Zero", so I'm not sure of your point ?

So unless anybody else has done back to back tests re this setup, I guess the CB result is the only reference point at this stage to go by.

Am I getting excited and going to buy one ?......no and no, as I would have done it 15 years ago !


Sides Veteran Volks Folk

2,220 posts · joined May 2007 ·

#804972
Last few days has been more head down and @rse up getting it all sorted.... late nights, early mornings, chaos at work etc meant no real time for updates - sorry.

So the first bit of news is that unfortunately my plan of dyno'ing with single plugs and then again with the duals is out the window... found that the internal circuitry of the coils means they won't fully discharge through one post, making triggering a bit erratic, so I've had to go all 8 straight off (as I don't have 4 single post coils)

And the second bit of news is that as of 8:35 AM this morning I have a fuel injected Beetle !!!

🙂 🙂 🙂

I have to say.... even with zero optimisation on the tune it's the sweetest idling Volksy motor I've ever heard, and seems to rev very cleanly. Definitely capable of driving itself onto and off the trailer for the dyno session tomorrow.

Just more eveidence I guess that Warwick is all about the last minute completion of projects !!!

🥷
VWDCQ vice pres & web dude - vwdcqinc.org.au
Join a car club - get car peeps

My toys
'70 Hillclimb Bug 'Jezebel' w/- Haltech EFI - http://bit.ly/VwTNtQ
'60 KG Coupe - resto kinda started
01 New Beetle - gf's car, but I turn the spanners

sander288 "Bolt-on Master"

1,404 posts · joined Aug 2008 ·

#804976
Good work Dave, I won't be able to see your new motor at Warwick, which is a shame but I over did it on the HSRCA weekend with trying to get my car ready 👍
BMW R65 LS
1967 1300 Deluxe
Swing-axles FTW ❗

STIDUB Over it.

1,497 posts · joined Jun 2008 ·

#805017
:O dave have you been having sickies to work on your beetle, thats disgraceful! 😂

what time are you rolling past my way? might head up with you on saturday morning for a wee bit
Volkswagen Drivers Club of Queensland - member 🙂

STIDUB - yep its still a work in progress

Vwdcq club car racing/ and crashing while my bug isn't finished.

The above are personal views, no more, no less

colonel mustard Son of Jim - Creator of Good

2,829 posts · joined Feb 2009 ·

#805090
I shall not be there saturday, so i guess I will miss seeing it. 🙁

Craig Torrens 6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion

8,040 posts · joined Jan 2003 ·

#805195
How did the Dyno session go ?

Will you be running the EFI or the 'old skool' carbies for Warwick ??!


Sides Veteran Volks Folk

2,220 posts · joined May 2007 ·

#805249
Hell yeah I'll be running Warwick with the EFI !!!

👍 👍 👍

Dyno session went well - power now up to 142.6, and most importantly with a much smoother curve... should be brilliant for drivability basically. Bl00dy long day tho... after getting home and packing stuff was so exhausted I basically fell straight into bed.... hence no update.

😊

Anyway - about to head out there now... been raining in Bris most of the night, so it's gonna be interesting methinks. Will do a proper update, graphs etc. when I'm back...
VWDCQ vice pres & web dude - vwdcqinc.org.au
Join a car club - get car peeps

My toys
'70 Hillclimb Bug 'Jezebel' w/- Haltech EFI - http://bit.ly/VwTNtQ
'60 KG Coupe - resto kinda started
01 New Beetle - gf's car, but I turn the spanners

fullnoise Fahrvergnugen

964 posts · joined Sep 2002 ·

#805322
Seriously impressive figures. Well done. I'd say all the hard work and hard-earned has paid of then.

CYA CT
esratrams

hellbugged 48's and straight cuts

5,080 posts · joined Apr 2003 ·

#805359
sounded great on the live stream sides...looked fast and loud!

Craig Torrens 6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion

8,040 posts · joined Jan 2003 ·

#805360
yep it sounded sweeeeeet 👍


cnfabo Custom Title Time!

1,353 posts · joined Apr 2008 ·

#805413
:cool dave,maybe you will start braking some track records now....good work......cant w8 to see some video.....

STIDUB Over it.

1,497 posts · joined Jun 2008 ·

#805509
so... how did mt cotton in the wet go? was the boat lap time broken from last time the hairpin flooded?
Volkswagen Drivers Club of Queensland - member 🙂

STIDUB - yep its still a work in progress

Vwdcq club car racing/ and crashing while my bug isn't finished.

The above are personal views, no more, no less

hellbugged 48's and straight cuts

5,080 posts · joined Apr 2003 ·

#805600
ah-hem

bat69 There is no status

791 posts · joined Apr 2005 ·

#805601
Dave, it's great to see you had some improvements over the old webbers with the new EFI setup. Your gains just make me more excited about the EFI conversion on my new circuit bug.
White Knuckle Racing Team [/i]
"Drive it like dirt"

Sides Veteran Volks Folk

2,220 posts · joined May 2007 ·

#805602
Yeah, cheers for comments guys. It's been a huge amount of work and late nights/early mornings, and even tho have a few little niggles to sort out I'm VERY happy with the result.

Warwick was a bit of a mixed bag... had a ton of fun of course, but also a few minor issues taking the shine off. At the root of it all was that my shiny new alternator seems to have sh@t itself, and lack of Volts is a BIG problem with EFI. Thanks HEAPS to Frosty for donating his spare battery after I completely flattened mine... saved my @rse there bigtime dude.

👍 👍 👍

Other than that Jezzi ran sweet, but had a lot of trouble launching her due to issues with the throttle linkage... can't wait for those new arms to arrive Daimo 😉 Once going tho man does she have some poke !!! My driest and best run was my first... huge amounts of spin off the line... a 2.4 something 60 ft giving a 10.420 @ 67mph. Similar ET to last year with the old engine, but that was on a 2.1 60 ft and only 61 mph. Every other run I was trying to get the launch right, but never managed it.

Sunday was hillclimb at Mt Cotton, with even more rain than out at Warwick. Managed to bodge the throttle linkage a bit better, which made launching bearable. Even in the wet the difference in drivability is massive... back to my preferred of using 2nd gear on the hairpin (rather than 1st) and she just pulls out of the hole no worries at all now. I hate driving in the wet and am generally a bit of a chicken... my previous best wet time was a low 59, but yesterday I managed a 56.17 to take max points in my class.

So yeah... start to finish conversion from carbs to EFI in 5 weeks and no missed events... but man I need some sleep now !!!

Unfortunately forgot to bring the dyno charts with me to work today, but will try to post them up from home tonite...
VWDCQ vice pres & web dude - vwdcqinc.org.au
Join a car club - get car peeps

My toys
'70 Hillclimb Bug 'Jezebel' w/- Haltech EFI - http://bit.ly/VwTNtQ
'60 KG Coupe - resto kinda started
01 New Beetle - gf's car, but I turn the spanners

Sides Veteran Volks Folk

2,220 posts · joined May 2007 ·

#805603
STIDUB wrote:so... how did mt cotton in the wet go? was the boat lap time broken from last time the hairpin flooded?
They've done a lot of drainage works so it doesn't flood now, but yeah - still very bl00dy wet yesterday.

The "boat run" was a 64 from memory, so yup - WAAAY quicker than that !!!

🙂
VWDCQ vice pres & web dude - vwdcqinc.org.au
Join a car club - get car peeps

My toys
'70 Hillclimb Bug 'Jezebel' w/- Haltech EFI - http://bit.ly/VwTNtQ
'60 KG Coupe - resto kinda started
01 New Beetle - gf's car, but I turn the spanners

hellbugged 48's and straight cuts

5,080 posts · joined Apr 2003 ·

#805613
cool Dave.....not good but seeing as the alt stuffed, the welded fan can go in while you're at it

wondered how you managed to a couple of starts i saw

Craig Torrens 6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion

8,040 posts · joined Jan 2003 ·

#805625
Sides wrote:My driest and best run was my first... huge amounts of spin off the line... a 2.4 something 60 ft giving a 10.420 @ 67mph. Similar ET to last year with the old engine, but that was on a 2.1 60 ft and only 61 mph.
10.42@ 67mph doesnt get you anywhere near 142hp.......sorry.


Sides Veteran Volks Folk

2,220 posts · joined May 2007 ·

#805636
Craig Torrens wrote:
Sides wrote:My driest and best run was my first... huge amounts of spin off the line... a 2.4 something 60 ft giving a 10.420 @ 67mph. Similar ET to last year with the old engine, but that was on a 2.1 60 ft and only 61 mph.
10.42@ 67mph doesnt get you anywhere near 142hp.......sorry.
Nothin to be sorry about at all Craig.

If I'd been able launch it... and the track was dry... and the weight of the car was known... and I'd been strapping it out past 6000 even... well then there might be some chance of figuring it all out.
VWDCQ vice pres & web dude - vwdcqinc.org.au
Join a car club - get car peeps

My toys
'70 Hillclimb Bug 'Jezebel' w/- Haltech EFI - http://bit.ly/VwTNtQ
'60 KG Coupe - resto kinda started
01 New Beetle - gf's car, but I turn the spanners

reub VWRX is gone...

2,054 posts · joined Sep 2002 ·

#805659
Sounds like a trip to willowbank test and tune or a street meet to prove Craig/others wrong dude? Oh, and to whip some commodore/falcon butt as well...

Congrats on getting the EFI up and running is what seemed to be a pretty short period. I'm sure that being able to tune the ignition is a big advantage over a fuel only like my 58.
Reub

vw69er Learner Dubber

9 posts · joined Feb 2010 ·

#805803
Craig Torrens wrote:
Sides wrote:My driest and best run was my first... huge amounts of spin off the line... a 2.4 something 60 ft giving a 10.420 @ 67mph. Similar ET to last year with the old engine, but that was on a 2.1 60 ft and only 61 mph.
10.42@ 67mph doesnt get you anywhere near 142hp.......sorry.
This does the maqths, only need to calculate the stuff,

http://www.eldemoniorojo.com/calculator.htm

Sides Veteran Volks Folk

2,220 posts · joined May 2007 ·

#805856
Yeah, after Craig's post I've had a look at a few different calculators, and big surprise the numbers for my run just don't add up.... a 2.4 60ft is WAY too slow for a car that can run a 10.420, and 67 MPH is WAY too high for a 10.420 ET. Kinda to be expected I think when I screwed the launch so badly !!!

😂

Regardless, here's the dyno chart from the other day.



Green line of 132.0 was with 44 IDF carbs and 38 vents
Red line of 142.6 is the Haltech wth 48mm throttle bodies

Conditions on the two days VERY close... both air temp and pressure about the same... including an afternoon storm on both days !!!

Still more tweaking to be done on the tune of course... I want to do as much of it as I can myself, but wanted a nice safe starting point to experiment from.... and like I said, now the REAL fun can start !!!

😀 😀 😀
VWDCQ vice pres & web dude - vwdcqinc.org.au
Join a car club - get car peeps

My toys
'70 Hillclimb Bug 'Jezebel' w/- Haltech EFI - http://bit.ly/VwTNtQ
'60 KG Coupe - resto kinda started
01 New Beetle - gf's car, but I turn the spanners

Sides Veteran Volks Folk

2,220 posts · joined May 2007 ·

#805858
DieSchnelleKafer wrote:what brand of throttle bodies did you use? they look sweet, nice work btw not many people are doing efi conversions
Yeah, cheers !!!

They're Injection Perfection 48mm IDF throttle bodies... bought them used off the forum, and pretty happy with 'em really.

👍
VWDCQ vice pres & web dude - vwdcqinc.org.au
Join a car club - get car peeps

My toys
'70 Hillclimb Bug 'Jezebel' w/- Haltech EFI - http://bit.ly/VwTNtQ
'60 KG Coupe - resto kinda started
01 New Beetle - gf's car, but I turn the spanners

Craig Torrens 6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion

8,040 posts · joined Jan 2003 ·

#805868
MPH is the best guide for HP, as ET can be dramatically influenced by a bad launch etc (hence the 10.42).........whereas the MPH tends to be relatively the same regardless of bad launches........Depending on the weight of the car, 142hp should be around 80mph mark for the 1/8th.

Maybe take it to Willowbank this Sat for the TNT, weigh the car and then see what the result is for the 1/4 mile.


ian.mezz I never said, I could write or spell

3,913 posts · joined Sep 2004 ·

#805883
put the webbers back on, Rose got a 10.50 on Saturday and a 10.007 out of the old 1916 on Sunday with 65Hp🤪😂🤪
on Sunday we took the spare wheel and the tools out, put the stinger on and took off the air cleaners. we must of got a gain of 8hp🤪😂🤪

you know I am just joking , Its good to see your vw racing around at most vw events.
😂🤪😂🤪😂
car forums. where a lot of peoples good intentions end up taking a good old car off the road forever never ever to see the road again. 🥲

matberry Moderator Go hard or go home

8,114 posts · joined Mar 2006 ·

#805887
Craig Torrens wrote:MPH is the best guide for HP, as ET can be dramatically influenced by a bad launch etc (hence the 10.42).........whereas the MPH tends to be relatively the same regardless of bad launches........Depending on the weight of the car, 142hp should be around 80mph mark for the 1/8th.
Yeah, my old 2332 had 141.6 rwhp and ran 80-84mph every pass.

Nice job btw Dave, getting it all happening and running both events 👍
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE

hellbugged 48's and straight cuts

5,080 posts · joined Apr 2003 ·

#805898
she be apples Dave........few issues sorted then "times" will come.

congrats!