benjicon wrote:helbus wrote:vwo60 wrote:A standard early beetle has a stability issue when it is standard, Ralph Nadder tried to have them banned in the US and succeded with the corvair.
Wha? Now that is funny
😂
Read this page
http://squid1351.tripod.com/squidsvair/id1.html
LOL... Yeah I read that and a heap of other stuff leaving me with the same conclusion about Nadder ... twat.
I love my Vair...and no it's not unsafe and yes....Nader is a tool on a self importance trip. How someone with so little actual knowledge was able to scaremonger so many people is beyond me.
Oh...and my narrowed Beetle was awesome too!
😂
1959 Mercedes Benz 190
1963 Chevrolet Corvair
1969 BMW 2002 Auto
1973 Mercedes Benz 230.6
Nader was correct about the early swing axle corvair, it's a shame they were put out of productiont and the later cars had fixed that problem with a different rear end, as for our beetles being unstable it the same, most cars have built in understeer but our cars have built in oversteer which most people cannot handle,i seen a lot of beetles that have roled over the years and lowering and narrowing just makes it worse
Let it go dude.
No i'm not repainting it.
vwo60 wrote:lowering and narrowing just makes it worse
I agree with lots that you have to say vwo6o, but I have to say lowering does not make your beetle handle worse. IMO, unless your racing, I think the improved ride/turning circle with the narrowed front end is woth it, with compliant suspension, they certainly handle and brake better than a slamed ride with no travel, regardless of being less track in the front. With the light weight of a beetle, they are so quick in the front that the reduced track is barely noticed, that is untill you get silly narrow.....yeah yeah, I here you say....where do you draw the line and fair point. I beleive it's not legal in Qld and so therefore it's certainly at the risk of the owner to go with a narrowed beam.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
wheres the fun in stability 😂
The lotus Elan was flamed massively by heaps of reviewers because it 'handled too well' and it 'drove like it was on rails', there was no fun factor or edge to worry about.
Everythings dangerous to some extent, depending on the user. One could use a fluffy bear as an innocent toy for a kid, or a weapon by shoving it down some dudes throat and chockin them to death. Just like a car.
each to their own 👍
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears. 👍
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta!
my super has lowered struts and handles a dream, no wavering all over the road at highway speeds, better stability by far. an IMPROVEMENT over stock, any way who would build a car that would be out right dangerous to drive on the road, i would say that most beetles have to be physically driven, where as new cars are at times too simple to drive and have that false sense of safety. i dont see many beetles in accidents these days, come to think of it none lately for some time, they have been late model cars.
happy driving 🙂
I don't want to get bogged down in this is it/isn't it safe thing, but suffice to say Australia is the laughing stock of the international car community - nowhere is nannied like Australia when it comes to these rules, and of course the answer is it is subjective. Many Aussies will have grown up with the 'speed kills' and 'modified cars are dangerous' mantras. Meh.
By way of perspective I have a car that the tyres are a little old and hard on. It gives me a lot less grip than new tyres. Does that mean my car should be defected and off the road? Maybe. So where do we draw the line? Replace tyres at least every 2 years? Every 2 weeks?
A 10 year old car is a death-trap compared to a brand new car. Should cars be taken off the road at 5 years? 5 weeks?
Australia just choses to legislate it's way to satisfying the hysterical, the media, and does very nicely thank you very much $$$ off it. Of course there needs to be rules and regulations. Australia is just out of all perspective. Is that because they're more advanced and have safer roads and does it lead to better safety statistics? No.
Hi
I have no problem with any mods as long as they signed off by an engineer.
What I can't understand is wanting to make a car do things worse just to look "cool", every modification has an up and a down side. eg lower your car you reduce ground clearance but improve handing etc
Steve
Yawn ...... is this topic still going on ...... 😢
The "look" is what all car manufacturers are after. Without it we would all be driving Govt designed pillow cars. I do not understand why an engineer needs to sign off on a modification on each and every car. Once a modification has been approved it should be logged and then everyone who wants to do the same mod pays a small fee to follow the recomended modification. OR........... maybe its a scam designed to line the pockets of a small elite academic group over the common users. No wouldn't happen, would it?🥷
Customer service is not dead in Australia.
Always after HAZET & MATRA & VW factory tools
iv just been reading this thread and came to a conclusion that there are many ppl out there with no idea, yes its illegal, yes there are idiots out there that take things too far, but when modifications are carried out properly they are not dangerous and alot of the time make the vehicle more stable and safer.... i know all the cars coming out of my shop are.... sensible narrowed beams are not dangerous and dont get me started about the comment posted that cars which are lowered handle worse... seriously, ok so all the race teams in the world are lowering their cars to make them unstable.... give me a break. im not going to get not this and argue, as everyone has the right to their own opinion, but i plead with you, if you have no clue about something do not try and confuse other ppl.... there is a right way and a wrong way of doing something.... if its done the right and safe way, the chances of finding an engineer to pass it is quite high.... cheers adam
VW - helping put oil back into the ground for over 60 years
hi Adam,
As you stated it's illeagle, are the cars coming out of your shop engineered and do they have the appriate plate for the modification approval attached, the engineer that i use refuses point blank to approve a narrowed beam.
vwo60 wrote:hi Adam,
As you stated it's illeagle, are the cars coming out of your shop engineered and do they have the appriate plate for the modification approval attached, the engineer that i use refuses point blank to approve a narrowed beam.
I dont get it man, whats your agenda ? Are you trying to piss everyone off ? Or does your dad work for the RTA??
No i'm not repainting it.
BULLSHIIIT!!!!!!!!!
How does a narrowed beam make a bug handle worse
My bug when it sat like a bus it handled like shit
Narrowed that bitch and now it out handles any habib in their lexus😀
Now quit being a ball breaker
The original post was about the legality of narrowing a beam, to date we have not really established that, i know that i cannot get it legally approved, we need to let people know if it is or not, Polac, benjicon and gringo 54 oval apear to be most offended by my posts, are your cars engineered and approved, then you can answer the original question, it seams to me that the question of legal/illeagle modification are best no spoken about on most forums, we all have our opinions and there are new people taking up our interest and i would like them to receive the correct advice about the legallity of any mods. that's my agenda. my 60 beetle has eight mods all legal and plated
vwo60 wrote:hi Adam,
As you stated it's illeagle, are the cars coming out of your shop engineered and do they have the appriate plate for the modification approval attached, the engineer that i use refuses point blank to approve a narrowed beam.
NSW doesnt do mod tags, its all on paper and computer so the car doesnt need all these extra tags fitted
someone must be approving atleast a few of them though cos theres lots of bugs passing pink slips each year with narrowed beams
Googlebot wrote:Hi Guys,
These narrowed Bugs - how do you stand with legality, in my case in NSW. I'm guessing it's obvious that you would require (strictly speaking) an Engineer's Certificate? Or does the age of the car nullify this (wishful deluded thinking?)?
Could it even be certified?
Thanks in advance.
No it should not be certified IMO
but some shops don't care
Some shops use unskilled workers who wouldn't know any better
😂ok, FOR THE RECORD. Un-engineered beams are illegal, both lowered or narrowed, in saying that, if they are done properly by someone who knows what they are doing they WILL make the car more stable and better handling. and YES they can be engineered, as i stated before, any beams that are narrowed sensibly, this time to be specific, under 80mm narrowed from stock, can be engineered legally in NSW. I leave the engineering up to the customer, alot of which choose not to, which is their choice, i never had mine engineered and never had a problem, as most inspectors would not have a clue what they are looking at, especially if its done properly and doesnt look like a hacked up home job, but YES anything narrowed under 80mm can be legally certified to be used on the road. cheers adam
VW - helping put oil back into the ground for over 60 years
"Caveat emptor"
"for off road use only"
Futue te ipsum!!!
Gringo_54_oval wrote:Narrowed that bitch and now it out handles any habib in their lexus😀
what you are describing is increased spring rate by shortening the torsion bars... which is fine. As for out-handling habibs, 20" wheels and cut springs generally don't help handling, but then again neither does narrowing the front track, which is the other thing that you did when you narrowed the beam. However, if you fitted stiffer shocks (pls tell me you have shocks) and stickier tyres, that would mask some of negative things you've done to the geometry of the front end... coz narrowing screws with that too. Using adjuster to get the lower height also mucks with all sort of things and if you have gone real low, you will be rest on the bumpstops which will add to the go-cart feel of the ride, but actually doesn't make the car faster.
I think narrowing is a complete furfee and a gimic, but like others have said, if it's engineered and regoed properly, that's ok. Hubcaps are just aesthetic and they are legal also.
Lowering is another issue altogether, it actually helps handling immensely, but again it needs to be done safely and legally. And... even if how low you want to go isn't legal on the road, there are endless ways to have it easily adjustable to floor scraping while having legal ride height on the street.
But yes, please get it engineered. it's not that hard and it means that we will have a modified car scene in years to come. if not, the local govt will clamp down on it all and mods will be a thing of the past...
🙁Googlebot wrote:Hi Guys,
These narrowed Bugs - how do you stand with legality, in my case in NSW. I'm guessing it's obvious that you would require (strictly speaking) an Engineer's Certificate? Or does the age of the car nullify this (wishful deluded thinking?)?
Could it even be certified?
Thanks in advance.
Google....your answer....yes it can be done & it needs to be certified to be legal....
as with a lot of mods, there are process' & procedures to comply with, check with the RTA or go see adam (polak)
that is the simple answer to your question
Nath
Step up to get out !!!
