Type 1 flywheels will be drilled for 8 dowels and centre bolt - does that suit the Scat crank? Can also do the flywheel with flat back to suit flanged crank. Can do any pattern needed inc offset dowell if needed. Type 4 are drilled for 5 bolt but can also be drilled for 10 bolt if needed.
Reversed gears for Subaru transmissions.
Fit a Subaru 5 speed to your rear engined car
www.subarugears.com scat flanged is different to standard T1 crank and more like a T4,heres a link to what they look like.
http://ultimateaircooled.com/simplemachinesforum/index.php?topic=9727.0Yeah I had a look before answering the thread. T1 centre size and centre hole with 8 x bolts and 1 x dowel. Then the flange area is cut off the back but with a slight centering ring to sit on the scat crank flange. No problems. Will probably need to get your scat flywheel off you to get all measurements absolutely perfect. I love it.
p.s. they are some nice nice cranks.....
Reversed gears for Subaru transmissions.
Fit a Subaru 5 speed to your rear engined car
www.subarugears.com OK one of my customers waned this affordable obx lsd in his race car. He got it $450 delivered to his door in North QLD and sent it down to be fitted to is '99 reversed subie box with 3.9 ratio.
We are putting the box together this week so will soon know how it goes once the car is finished.
For the interests of aussieveedubbers out there I thought I would post up some pix of what the thing looks like inside.
Its basically a Chinese copy of a quaife (and I would have thought not a problem to make some to suit vw boxes either).
Anyway, all looked good inside, there was no big bits of dirt or metal filings in there and most of the edges were nicely finished. Overall I would say looks good for the money.
Reversed gears for Subaru transmissions.
Fit a Subaru 5 speed to your rear engined car
www.subarugears.com How do the output shafts on these compare to T1 and T2 outputs out of interest?
fast68 wrote:How do the output shafts on these compare to T1 and T2 outputs out of interest?
If memory serves... They are smaller on the Subi diff.... Have looked at fitting a Subi LSD into a bus transaxle before.... It's a very doable option.... New bearing carriers would need to be machined to position the diff, and you would also need to create an adapter spacer for the VW ring gear... The of course some form of output adaption would need to be created...
Yeh have had a friend do it in a T1 box, was a cheaper option to a Quaife, but a lot of work. was just looking at the pictures above and throught i'd ask the question.
Why not get in touch with OBX racing products in the USA and get them to do a VW one? I reckon there would be plenty of demand for it. And hey $450 landed with no more to do.
Reversed gears for Subaru transmissions.
Fit a Subaru 5 speed to your rear engined car
www.subarugears.com ttriebler wrote:OK one of my customers waned this affordable obx lsd in his race car. He got it $450 delivered to his door in North QLD and sent it down to be fitted to is '99 reversed subie box with 3.9 ratio.
We are putting the box together this week so will soon know how it goes once the car is finished.
For the interests of aussieveedubbers out there I thought I would post up some pix of what the thing looks like inside.
Its basically a Chinese copy of a quaife (and I would have thought not a problem to make some to suit vw boxes either).
Anyway, all looked good inside, there was no big bits of dirt or metal filings in there and most of the edges were nicely finished. Overall I would say looks good for the money.
Will be interesting to see how this goes, Seems to be a lot of mixed results on the Net.
[quote
Will be interesting to see how this goes, Seems to be a lot of mixed results on the Net. [/quote]
The diff or the whole subaru box conversion?
Birdman wrote:[quote
Will be interesting to see how this goes, Seems to be a lot of mixed results on the Net.
The diff or the whole subaru box conversion? [/quote]
The LSD sorry.
Right I mocked up a subie box, adaptor plate and type 1 engine block into my superbeetle chassis forks engine stand today to see how everything lines up.
With the box and cv joints in the right place this is what it looks like :
First question is if the andgle of the engine and sump are OK. This pic has the sump level and the last part of the forks level. Is that how it is in the pan or are the back part of the forks tilted upwards? They are tilted upwards a bit on my engine stand but that is just an example.
Secondly, this is the distance from the end of the pan forks to the back of the VW engine - 55mm. How does that compare to an aircooled engine bolted to a VW box? If it end up too far back or too high up in the air there will be problems packaging everything in.
Your feedback would be appreciated before I go any further down this track....
Reversed gears for Subaru transmissions.
Fit a Subaru 5 speed to your rear engined car
www.subarugears.com From memory, your mock-up engine looks to be sitting a lot higher.... Have a look at the crankshaft/input shaft centreline to axle distance comparison this illustration from a VW manual...
OEM cooling tin will not line up with a TI/II engine bay if that is the case.... Not a huge issue really.... With conventional trans lift set-ups that is the case also.... We have just made the tinware and engine bay fit the new engine location.... The distance from the firewall to the crank case flange is the next issue.... By the looks of that, the top of the adapter/crankcase flange will interfere with the lower part of the firewall/package tray.... Again, not an issue as that area can also be modified.... The next potential problem is the nose cone clearance under the seat/firewall area.... Same story..... Nothing about this installation into a Bug will be straight forward.... The entire rear of the car will need plenty of modification to make this trans conversion work....
Thanks for the feedback, that's not a bad start! The nose cone clearance is not an issue, we have already sussed that. Will take your other points under consideration and see what can be done tomake the conversion as easy as possible. Doesn't seem too bad!
Reversed gears for Subaru transmissions.
Fit a Subaru 5 speed to your rear engined car
www.subarugears.com any new updates, photos??
a aircooled bell housing is usually in line with the end of the tuning forks, you still might be ok with what you have there
BEING ASPIRATED FEELS GREAT BUT BEING BLOWN TAKES THING TO A WHOLE NEW LEVEL....
fast68 wrote:any new updates, photos??
Sorry no updates. I decided the design needs a flat bottom on the adaptor plate to allow meat for studs to be fitted, thus allowing for decent mount to be fitted. This still needs to be mocked up perfectly and I have loaned out my mockup box to a customer developing the type 3 gearbox and engine mounts. I should have the mockup box back in a week.
In the meantime I've been working on the automatic box for all those American Vanagon owners that want them.
Reversed gears for Subaru transmissions.
Fit a Subaru 5 speed to your rear engined car
www.subarugears.com Right, after 2 long days of measuring and fabricating I think I have managed a pretty good set of gearbox mounts.
Used some 40 x 60 RHS as the basic tube to tie the forks together, welded on some triangle bases to it at the correct angle and we have a solid platform. Small relief cut out for the bolt at the bottom of the VW engine.
Add some Kelbpro engine mounts designed for a Ford 250 cu in 6 cyl engine that just happen to have the right measurements to attach to the bottom gearbox bolts. This means the mounts can be used on both 4 bolt and 8 bolt subie boxes (as well as autos should that ever happen).
These mounts also have limiters on them should there be massive twists from torque. Here's the basic mount bolted onto the forks :
From the front angle, bolted through the adaptor :
From the side - note the clearance of the subaflange just above the frame horns :
The height of the VW sump once all is bolted up. The bottom of the sump is at approximately the middle of the frame horn bolts :
The hybrid type 4/subie flywheel has been drawn up in CAD, just need to make a sample aluminium one to make sure everything fits up properly.
Reversed gears for Subaru transmissions.
Fit a Subaru 5 speed to your rear engined car
www.subarugears.com That last pic is the clincher. Normally the sump is level with the bottom of the cradle mount. Looks like subi box lifts engine by nearly 2" or so. I'd say it's a little rearward too, as Humpty has said, all that is doable with tinware mods. One other thing is that engine remove/refit will definately have issues without a removeable apron, some exhaust systems may also have clearance issues.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
Gears made in china wouldn't bother me at all. People tend to focus only on the cheap crap that comes out of china but their industry runs the full scale from backyard rubbish to fabrication to support the nuclear industry... It's all about the engineering and the QAQC systems.
Brilliant idea by the way, watching with interest.
Looking good!
Are the diff gears available to the public soon?
westi wrote:That's mad Alan.
dangerous wrote:Looking good!
Are the diff gears available to the public soon?
Thanks for the compliment!
??????? been selling them for quite a few months now.
Direct to public via my website
www.subarugears.com
We managed to put around 3000 kms on a set of 3.9 diff gears out of China, with a torsen LSD fitted. Used on the street and up at Stockton for a day too. Didn't blow up! Even a couple of 5000rpm dumps in there on tarmac.
Just stripped that box for a look and to change to clutch type LSD and the ring and pinion look good. Not everything out of China is junk - I overspec the material and they have a good QA process.
Reversed gears for Subaru transmissions.
Fit a Subaru 5 speed to your rear engined car
www.subarugears.com ttriebler wrote:Right, after 2 long days of measuring and fabricating I think I have managed a pretty good set of gearbox mounts.
Used some 40 x 60 RHS as the basic tube to tie the forks together, welded on some triangle bases to it at the correct angle and we have a solid platform. Small relief cut out for the bolt at the bottom of the VW engine.
Add some Kelbpro engine mounts designed for a Ford 250 cu in 6 cyl engine that just happen to have the right measurements to attach to the bottom gearbox bolts. This means the mounts can be used on both 4 bolt and 8 bolt subie boxes (as well as autos should that ever happen).
These mounts also have limiters on them should there be massive twists from torque. Here's the basic mount bolted onto the forks :
From the front angle, bolted through the adaptor :
From the side - note the clearance of the subaflange just above the frame horns :
The height of the VW sump once all is bolted up. The bottom of the sump is at approximately the middle of the frame horn bolts :
The hybrid type 4/subie flywheel has been drawn up in CAD, just need to make a sample aluminium one to make sure everything fits up properly.
Will you be test fitting the engine and box in a to ensure the tinware and exhaust fit properly??
fan pulley clear the boot lid?
Fan housing clear boot lid hinges?
Air cleaners on twin carbs?
Long list if that engine is back and up as far as it appears
hellbugged wrote:fan pulley clear the boot lid?
Fan housing clear boot lid hinges?
Air cleaners on twin carbs?
Long list if that engine is back and up as far as it appears
this stock vw has about 3cm
🥲between fan and engine lid hinge.
the tappet covers may also hit
😂🤪😂🤪😂
car forums. where a lot of peoples good intentions end up taking a good old car off the road forever never ever to see the road again. 🥲
Yep looks like some challenges to get it into stock beetles. But no challenges for buggies and unlikely challenges for Vanagons/Type 3's etc.
Once I get the flywheel back I will put one together and take it to a VW shop for some test fits into cars.
I'm wondering if the engine pulleys will hit the back of the car as well.
Fans are overrated anyway. Maybe the Porsche style ones provide more clearance?
Reversed gears for Subaru transmissions.
Fit a Subaru 5 speed to your rear engined car
www.subarugears.com Does it look possible to drop the trans further in between the fram horns? this would help the situation.
actually all but one version of the porsche fan for the vw is taller than the stock cooler
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fast68 wrote:Does it look possible to drop the trans further in between the fram horns? this would help the situation.
Possibly a touch lower but not any further forward. May have a shot at a trial fit on the weekend.
Reversed gears for Subaru transmissions.
Fit a Subaru 5 speed to your rear engined car
www.subarugears.com In a Bug I would suggest running hood props (top and possible bottom) is a must for this conversion.... The OEM fan shrouds will be fine, though the top pulley will be an issue.... And a custom/modified exhaust will be a must.... Nothing comes easy.... If this box proves to be stronger (they are not very strong in a Subi by the way, but a VW will be a different animal) and cheaper than other transaxle options on the market, it could well be a very sound and sensible option.
A TIII will present an entirely new range of issues.... As will a Bus.
Keep at it!
