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What is that pipe?

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acemarc Casual Dubber

41 posts · joined Jul 2010 ·

#833635
I put a GT 4 tip exhaust and j pipes on the other day. (73 Fasty) Sounds good. Started her up and had a look under for leaks. There is a metal pipe pointing down near the sump that had a fair bit of air/ exhaust coming out. Is this a breather pipe? Should it be connected to something?

Also what fuel should I be using and do I really need to add valve saver. As far as I know my motor is still original. 100k

68AutoBug Beetle Restorer - Experience over 138\% - YIKES --

11,654 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#833642
acemarc wrote:I put a GT 4 tip exhaust and j pipes on the other day. (73 Fasty) Sounds good. Started her up and had a look under for leaks. There is a metal pipe pointing down near the sump that had a fair bit of air/ exhaust coming out. Is this a breather pipe? Should it be connected to something?

Also what fuel should I be using and do I really need to add valve saver. As far as I know my motor is still original. 100k
Hi
I have just started to use valve saver but many beetle owners have been using it since leaded petrol disappeared..
it can't hurt your engine... lol

that is a breather pipe.. from the engine oil filler...
stops any build up of pressure in the crankcase...

they used to have a rubber tip that closed when there was no pressure but haven't seen one for years... lol

My beetle doesn't like ethanol where others have said its OK..

Many beetle owners who can afford 95 or 98 Premium are using it...
I was using it until the price went up over $1-50 a litre
so I''ve found a local servo still serving 91 unleaded without ethanol... $1-45 Litre
many small servos are still selling NON ethanol fuel as they need to get their pumps modified for the ethanol..
they have until end of july 2012 when all 91 unleaded will have ethanol in it...

then its 95 or 98 Vortex etc...

cheers

Lee
- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---

johny rotten Officially Full-On Dubber

366 posts · joined Apr 2004 ·

#833643
valve saver is rubbish

BRUTUS Officially Full-On Dubber

255 posts · joined Feb 2006 ·

#833677
Hi Acemarc,
If the motor is about '71 on, the pipe should originally be
re-connected back into the bottom of the oil Filler pipe (close to where bolted to the case) by some ~1'' OD rubber hose with cloth braid. Up to '70 inclusive the breather pipe (~3/4") was open at the end with a little rubber valve on it.
So if yours has the open steel tube, it may be that the motor is earlier, or the breather parts have been swapped for earlier ones.
The end of the tube under the motor shouldn't be 'breathing heavily' as you noted. It is a good idea to check the little metal breather box that the tube goes into at the top. It should have a large steel washer and a spring under the plastic cap. (To breathe properly the box should be reasonably clean inside.) A hose shouyld go from it to the air-cleaner, to give postive case ventilation.

You should always try 91 oct first. If the motor has increased compression, and/or if it pings (check under load; at lowish revs in top; when hot) you may need 95 oct. The timing should be 'correct' (say within 2 or 3deg.) when checking for pinging, as over-advanced timing will cause it too. We like to run the 95 oct on longer trips when the weather is hot, and just use 91 for local.
'Valve saver' should be unnecessary on later engines... We stopped using it in all our engines years ago and the valve cleaances have never shifted abnormally.
ACE 30 & 40 oils: specifically engineered for your Air Cooled VW
delivered (free del.) throughout Yarra Valley / Ranges, & Gippsland areas. Also ACE 20, 50 & 90.
FOR SALE: ACE 30, 40 etc. Oil formulations & Trade-names.

Matt Ryan Fahrvergnugen

890 posts · joined Jan 2006 ·

#833682
that is a breather pipe.. from the engine oil filler... stops any build up of pressure in the crankcase... they used to have a rubber tip that closed when there was no pressure but haven't seen one for years... lol

Lee,

Funny you should mention it, I came across some of those the other day.

http://www.justkampersaustralia.com/shop/rubber-boot-for-end-oil-breather-j10959.html








Regards,

Matt.


http://portvwforum.freeforums.org

vlad01 Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber

4,270 posts · joined Jun 2010 ·

#833684
Fair bit of air coming out of your breather? 🙅

your engine is excessively worn probably from some idiot removing the thermostat I bet😂 or/and using "castrol GTX" 🙄

71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE

jvans5434 Casual Dubber

31 posts · joined May 2010 ·

#833778
hey what's the problem with castrol gtx??????

vlad01 Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber

4,270 posts · joined Jun 2010 ·

#833792
😂

71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE

68AutoBug Beetle Restorer - Experience over 138\% - YIKES --

11,654 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#833801
vlad01 wrote:Fair bit of air coming out of your breather? 🙅

your engine is excessively worn probably from some idiot removing the thermostat I bet😂 or/and using "castrol GTX" 🙄
Hi Vlad,
Most thermostats were removed at the first service by VW Mechanics...
They were told to throw them away....
so most ended up in the rubbish....

LEE


and whats wrong with GTX??? 😂
I just filled My engine up with GTX2...

LEE
- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---

vlad01 Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber

4,270 posts · joined Jun 2010 ·

#833895
all I can say 🙅

typical aussies.

71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE

68AutoBug Beetle Restorer - Experience over 138\% - YIKES --

11,654 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#833898
Hi Vlad.

A local VW trained Mechanic who lives locally, told Me they were told to remove any thermostats found on any beetles..
He used to just disconnect them...

VW Australasia thought it was better to have NO thermostat??

I wonder who thought up this modification??

If He was a mechanic etc.. I wouldn't take any car to him.. lol

cheers

LEE

PS: the thermostats opened quite early so I don't know why they did this removal modification ..🙅❗
- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---

Lucky Phil Wolfsburg Wizard

480 posts · joined Aug 2010 ·

#833908
If you have ever seen a cooler housing with the vanes still installed you will notice that in the closed position they block the flow of air to the engine allowing the engine to reach operating temperature sooner. More importantly for colder climates, it gets the heater working properly (and sooner). Critical in snow country!

BUT!!!

When it gets hotter and the vanes travel further they then redirect more air to the heads where there are a lot more cooling fins. Without the thermostat system in place you are missing out on valuable cooling in hot conditions. That accounts for all the cracked heads you see.

Phil.

68AutoBug Beetle Restorer - Experience over 138\% - YIKES --

11,654 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#833920
Hi Phil
If the vanes are in position in the fully open position
is this OK for the summer???

I know of Beetle owners who took out the flaps and chucked them away....
so, there must have been stories of the flaps overheating engines???? years ago....??

LEE
- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---

Old Rusty_VW Casual Dubber

29 posts · joined Mar 2011 ·

#833926
Lucky Phil wrote:BUT!!!

When it gets hotter and the vanes travel further they then redirect more air to the heads where there are a lot more cooling fins. Without the thermostat system in place you are missing out on valuable cooling in hot conditions. That accounts for all the cracked heads you see.

Phil.

If the air duct flaps are removed totally, wouldn't this just mean that the engine would be slower heating up? Would only be a problem in colder areas of Australia.

VW trained mechanics around Sydney in the 60s certainly were told to remove the thermostat and lock the air duct flaps in the fully open position. The only reason many overheated was that owners didn't address oil leaks and dust/dirt caked onto the cylinders and heads which restricted the cooling air flow.

Rusty

68AutoBug Beetle Restorer - Experience over 138\% - YIKES --

11,654 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#833930
Old Rusty_VW wrote:
Lucky Phil wrote:BUT!!!

When it gets hotter and the vanes travel further they then redirect more air to the heads where there are a lot more cooling fins. Without the thermostat system in place you are missing out on valuable cooling in hot conditions. That accounts for all the cracked heads you see.

Phil.

If the air duct flaps are removed totally, wouldn't this just mean that the engine would be slower heating up? Would only be a problem in colder areas of Australia.

VW trained mechanics around Sydney in the 60s certainly were told to remove the thermostat and lock the air duct flaps in the fully open position. The only reason many overheated was that owners didn't address oil leaks and dust/dirt caked onto the cylinders and heads which restricted the cooling air flow.

Rusty
Hi Rusty,
the vanes actually point the flow of air into certain places , its not a random thing... there are lots of air directing bits inside a VW fan shroud..
and these don't work without the vanes to direct the air...

I remember reading Larry Perkins bathurst winner and rally driver saying that VW spent huge amounts of money into their engine cooling system....
and that it should NOT be taken out ...

its better for your engine to have it in place...

and that means all tinware in place....

Lee

also

Many people never ever looked at the Cooling system ...
since there was no radiator.... no cooling fluids -
or hoses or water pump... as advertised by VW ...

they thought there wasn't anything else....
even though VW servicing costs were minimal back in the 50s and early 60s...

but I don't believe there was any mention of keeping the fins clean in the owners manual....

and when You think of the dust problems back then on outback roads... and many other roads..

its lucky the engines went as long as they did.... lol

LEE

[/b]
- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---

Old Rusty_VW Casual Dubber

29 posts · joined Mar 2011 ·

#833941
68AutoBug wrote:
Old Rusty_VW wrote:
Lucky Phil wrote:BUT!!!

When it gets hotter and the vanes travel further they then redirect more air to the heads where there are a lot more cooling fins. Without the thermostat system in place you are missing out on valuable cooling in hot conditions. That accounts for all the cracked heads you see.

Phil.

If the air duct flaps are removed totally, wouldn't this just mean that the engine would be slower heating up? Would only be a problem in colder areas of Australia.

VW trained mechanics around Sydney in the 60s certainly were told to remove the thermostat and lock the air duct flaps in the fully open position. The only reason many overheated was that owners didn't address oil leaks and dust/dirt caked onto the cylinders and heads which restricted the cooling air flow.

Rusty
Hi Rusty,
the vanes actually point the flow of air into certain places , its not a random thing... there are lots of air directing bits inside a VW fan shroud..
and these don't work without the vanes to direct the air...

I remember reading Larry Perkins bathurst winner and rally driver saying that VW spent huge amounts of money into their engine cooling system....
and that it should NOT be taken out ...

its better for your engine to have it in place...

and that means all tinware in place....

Lee

also

Many people never ever looked at the Cooling system ...
since there was no radiator.... no cooling fluids -
or hoses or water pump... as advertised by VW ...

they thought there wasn't anything else....
even though VW servicing costs were minimal back in the 50s and early 60s...

but I don't believe there was any mention of keeping the fins clean in the owners manual....

and when You think of the dust problems back then on outback roads... and many other roads..

its lucky the engines went as long as they did.... lol

LEE

[/b]
Hello Lee. Just reading about the Type 3 pancake engine and the actual air duct flaps are in the aluminium fan housing and only seem to be a restriction to airflow until operating temperature is reached. There doesn't seem to be any vanes in the tinware to direct the air on an engine I have in pieces other than the small pieces between/ under the cylinders to direct the air to cool that part. Are there vanes to actually do this on an upright engine which makes them that bit different to a Type 3 engine?? Maybe some of the cooling problems and head cracking, especially on the cyl 3/4 bank on these engines is the use of a non Type 3 distributor which doesn't have the retardation on cylinder 3. Maybe the VW design engineers also knew a bit more than some of the current Type 3 enthusiasts by trying to combat the heat from the oil cooler.

As I'm contemplating the purchase of a 64 or 65 Type 3 sedan or Variant S if i can find one, I have been looking at this section quite a bit to see what may be in store for me!

Rusty

vlad01 Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber

4,270 posts · joined Jun 2010 ·

#833942
Old Rusty_VW wrote:
Lucky Phil wrote:BUT!!!

When it gets hotter and the vanes travel further they then redirect more air to the heads where there are a lot more cooling fins. Without the thermostat system in place you are missing out on valuable cooling in hot conditions. That accounts for all the cracked heads you see.

Phil.

If the air duct flaps are removed totally, wouldn't this just mean that the engine would be slower heating up? Would only be a problem in colder areas of Australia.

VW trained mechanics around Sydney in the 60s certainly were told to remove the thermostat and lock the air duct flaps in the fully open position. The only reason many overheated was that owners didn't address oil leaks and dust/dirt caked onto the cylinders and heads which restricted the cooling air flow.

Rusty
both spot on!

[rant]

I might add.... Just because these are air cooled, does not give a right to remove a thermostat. They have the exact same role as it has in a water cooled engine.

If you remove them, especially in cold areas, you ARE GOING PREMATURELY WEAR YOUR ENGINE! and never see the 200,000Km+ they are suppose to get and worn after like 30,000Km like everyone thinks is normal these days.

[/rant]

71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE

Old Rusty_VW Casual Dubber

29 posts · joined Mar 2011 ·

#833968
vlad01 wrote:
Old Rusty_VW wrote:
Lucky Phil wrote:BUT!!!

When it gets hotter and the vanes travel further they then redirect more air to the heads where there are a lot more cooling fins. Without the thermostat system in place you are missing out on valuable cooling in hot conditions. That accounts for all the cracked heads you see.

Phil.

If the air duct flaps are removed totally, wouldn't this just mean that the engine would be slower heating up? Would only be a problem in colder areas of Australia.

VW trained mechanics around Sydney in the 60s certainly were told to remove the thermostat and lock the air duct flaps in the fully open position. The only reason many overheated was that owners didn't address oil leaks and dust/dirt caked onto the cylinders and heads which restricted the cooling air flow.

Rusty
both spot on!

[rant]

I might add.... Just because these are air cooled, does not give a right to remove a thermostat. They have the exact same role as it has in a water cooled engine.

If you remove them, especially in cold areas, you ARE GOING PREMATURELY WEAR YOUR ENGINE! and never see the 200,000Km+ they are suppose to get and worn after like 30,000Km like everyone thinks is normal these days.

[/rant]
Vlad01, I wouldn't think that too many VWs got that many Km without problems back when they were common on the roads. I seem to remember people doing hand stands if an engine lasted much more than 100,000 km without at least a top end job. I do remember both 1200 Bugs and Type 3s having failed exhaust valves in the earlier 60s when both 1200 and 1500 engines shared the same rocker shaft system with the long studs. Plenty of valve clearance, especially when the thread in the head stripped. It all then ran hot on at least one cylinder as the valve only partially opened to get rid of exhaust gas.

We also have to remember that some overheating problems were caused by thermostat pushrods stripping out of the thermostat bellows thus rendering the whole cooling system useless. There is certainly for and against removing the thermostat on VWs but in a hot climate it shouldn't cause too many major problems or premature wear.

Rusty

68AutoBug Beetle Restorer - Experience over 138\% - YIKES --

11,654 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#834007
HI

I have found that the flaps/vanes attachment to the thermostat rod is a bit under engineered...

I have a new brazillian thermostat to fit one day....

LEE
- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---