mactaylor Custom Title Time!
1,005 posts ยท joined Aug 2007 ยท
dont mind a bit of flange myself!
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1915 v wrx engine
vlad01 Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber
4,270 posts ยท joined Jun 2010 ยท
haha i love the comment on the v6 torque vs vw engine torque.
in my driving preferences the v6 is wins by miles.
in my driving preferences the v6 is wins by miles.
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE
vassy66T1 Wow ... are U reading this?
2,120 posts ยท joined Jun 2003 ยท
Everyone has the thing that they enjoy about the volksies.
If your budget is tight then trying to build a big horsepower sub 2l type 1 engine is not the way to go.
A Subaru is cheap horsepower. Of course as Damo said (and Boof is witness to), there is so much else that is affected = more $
I love the VW including the aircooled engine. So i choose that way even though it means more money to make the less/same horsepower as a modern car.
Please don't take offence, but Wrx's bore me senseless.
If your budget is tight then trying to build a big horsepower sub 2l type 1 engine is not the way to go.
A Subaru is cheap horsepower. Of course as Damo said (and Boof is witness to), there is so much else that is affected = more $
I love the VW including the aircooled engine. So i choose that way even though it means more money to make the less/same horsepower as a modern car.
Please don't take offence, but Wrx's bore me senseless.
Craig Torrens 6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion
8,040 posts ยท joined Jan 2003 ยท
Yell yeah...............Subie power all the way.๐boof2332 wrote:Craig should have changed his avatar along time ago...he is exceptionally strong in the dark side of the force!
ruckus Veteran Volks Folk
2,118 posts ยท joined Jun 2004 ยท
Forgive my ignorance (and long absence), but can anyone quickly outline the practicalities of the STi gearbox inside a bug?
Hopefully this is in keeping with the OP's original intent...
Hopefully this is in keeping with the OP's original intent...
ttriebler Officially Full-On Dubber
321 posts ยท joined Jan 2008 ยท
5 gears, nice shifting, stronger (if necessary).
Really it's only needed for those who want an overdrive 5th and no drop in the gear spacing from 1st to 5th.
You can achieve the same overdrive gearing with a 4 speed vw but then you get massive holes between the gears where your revs drop off the torque curve.
Or if you have a turbo motor with lots of torque (VW or subie) and keep blowing up vw boxes then fitting the subie box that's designed to go with the motor gives you a better chance of keeping it from blowing up. That's not to say they are indestructible either. ๐
Really it's only needed for those who want an overdrive 5th and no drop in the gear spacing from 1st to 5th.
You can achieve the same overdrive gearing with a 4 speed vw but then you get massive holes between the gears where your revs drop off the torque curve.
Or if you have a turbo motor with lots of torque (VW or subie) and keep blowing up vw boxes then fitting the subie box that's designed to go with the motor gives you a better chance of keeping it from blowing up. That's not to say they are indestructible either. ๐
Reversed gears for Subaru transmissions.
Fit a Subaru 5 speed to your rear engined car
www.subarugears.com
Fit a Subaru 5 speed to your rear engined car
www.subarugears.com
vlad01 Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber
4,270 posts ยท joined Jun 2010 ยท
yep me too. suby just doesn't excite me at all.vassy66T1 wrote:Everyone has the thing that they enjoy about the volksies.
If your budget is tight then trying to build a big horsepower sub 2l type 1 engine is not the way to go.
A Subaru is cheap horsepower. Of course as Damo said (and Boof is witness to), there is so much else that is affected = more $
I love the VW including the aircooled engine. So i choose that way even though it means more money to make the less/same horsepower as a modern car.
Please don't take offence, but Wrx's bore me senseless.
sure they have power but its all up top. I much prefer bottom end.
type 4 is most suited but I do very much like the ideal of a compact V6.
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE
ttriebler Officially Full-On Dubber
321 posts ยท joined Jan 2008 ยท
Hence why fitting a Subie EZ30 flat 6 would be ideal for you Vlad. Not much longer than the flat 4 and it's a flat 6 - even better torque characteristics than a V6.
Reversed gears for Subaru transmissions.
Fit a Subaru 5 speed to your rear engined car
www.subarugears.com
Fit a Subaru 5 speed to your rear engined car
www.subarugears.com
ricola Wolfsburg Wizard
437 posts ยท joined Feb 2003 ยท
All these comparisons seem to forget that a big power VW engine will need the brakes and drivetrain upgrades to take the power just as much as any other engine conversion so don't try adding those costs into the comparison!
ruckus Veteran Volks Folk
2,118 posts ยท joined Jun 2004 ยท
Thanks mate. After more than four years living in Japan and still longing to be thumping around in a Dub, I thought it would be crazy not to at least check first about Subies as I would assume I'd have a good shot at getting a setup cheap over here... the actual car is the problem ๐ttriebler wrote:5 gears, nice shifting, stronger (if necessary)...
That's not to say they are indestructible either. ๐
hellbugged 48's and straight cuts
5,080 posts ยท joined Apr 2003 ยท
yes and no.ricola wrote:All these comparisons seem to forget that a big power VW engine will need the brakes and drivetrain upgrades to take the power just as much as any other engine conversion so don't try adding those costs into the comparison!
i think for subie conversion (especially for roadworthy engineering)......you need to go that "extra" step to accomodate the extra tourque and top end speed, which makes it more expensive even tho they will both require modifying
oh Jak, i almost got a quote in on that one before it was gone ๐ ........some valid points there!
matberry Moderator Go hard or go home
8,114 posts ยท joined Mar 2006 ยท
Jeez, missed that one....ya gotta be quick.....or was it BS anyway???hellbugged wrote:oh Jak, i almost got a quote in on that one before it was gone ๐ ........some valid points there!
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
vlad01 Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber
4,270 posts ยท joined Jun 2010 ยท
mmm? no there not, not according to wikipeadia.ttriebler wrote:Hence why fitting a Subie EZ30 flat 6 would be ideal for you Vlad. Not much longer than the flat 4 and it's a flat 6 - even better torque characteristics than a V6.
289nm at @ 4400 rpm is a lot higher up the rpm range than I expected.
but meh ๐
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE
ttriebler Officially Full-On Dubber
321 posts ยท joined Jan 2008 ยท
Would with a supercharger on it.....mmmm...forced induction at idle....yummyvlad01 wrote:mmm? no there not, not according to wikipeadia.ttriebler wrote:Hence why fitting a Subie EZ30 flat 6 would be ideal for you Vlad. Not much longer than the flat 4 and it's a flat 6 - even better torque characteristics than a V6.
289nm at @ 4400 rpm is a lot higher up the rpm range than I expected.
but meh ๐
Reversed gears for Subaru transmissions.
Fit a Subaru 5 speed to your rear engined car
www.subarugears.com
Fit a Subaru 5 speed to your rear engined car
www.subarugears.com
vlad01 Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber
4,270 posts ยท joined Jun 2010 ยท
or you could just do this
I have no idea what the actual torque numbers are here? but I know its more than 260nm at like 1200 rpm in this case.
that mitsu V6 at the OP intrigues me as well, hmmm?
I have no idea what the actual torque numbers are here? but I know its more than 260nm at like 1200 rpm in this case.
that mitsu V6 at the OP intrigues me as well, hmmm?
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE
ttriebler Officially Full-On Dubber
321 posts ยท joined Jan 2008 ยท
Bahahahaha you call that a torque curve?
Below is a H6 3.0 with 10psi turbo boost. Awesome.
Below is a H6 3.0 with 10psi turbo boost. Awesome.
Reversed gears for Subaru transmissions.
Fit a Subaru 5 speed to your rear engined car
www.subarugears.com
Fit a Subaru 5 speed to your rear engined car
www.subarugears.com
vlad01 Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber
4,270 posts ยท joined Jun 2010 ยท
but thats boosted and there is nothing about what rpm its at. I am talking about an off the shelf NA engine.
If thats the case^ f**k it just buy a 993 tubo engine lol. ๐
If thats the case^ f**k it just buy a 993 tubo engine lol. ๐
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE
mactaylor Custom Title Time!
1,005 posts ยท joined Aug 2007 ยท
sorry vlad that is flat as and im excited!
EVERLAST CONCRETE TANKS
1800 552 123
1800 552 123
pete wood 23 Windows of Awesome
6,828 posts ยท joined Jan 2004 ยท
WRX
Pos; Cheap, more powerful, more torque, lots of cheap hotup parts, modern engine, factory built.
Neg; HEAVY, not bolt in, need proper gearbox (at some stage), needs a radiator and intercooler.
1916
Pos; light, accepted as engine upgrade for many racing classes.
Neg; OLD engine, exy, limited KMs, needs lots of regular maintainence, rare, hand built.
Truth is, like people have said, apples VS oranges. Each one has advantages. Re the VW, don't underestimate the importance of lightness. I'd like to own a JPM 1916. ๐
I also really enjoy my EJ25. Kicks over straight away, tunes itself. Give me a 1916 that will do that with OHCs for >$5k, I might consider changing.
Pos; Cheap, more powerful, more torque, lots of cheap hotup parts, modern engine, factory built.
Neg; HEAVY, not bolt in, need proper gearbox (at some stage), needs a radiator and intercooler.
1916
Pos; light, accepted as engine upgrade for many racing classes.
Neg; OLD engine, exy, limited KMs, needs lots of regular maintainence, rare, hand built.
Truth is, like people have said, apples VS oranges. Each one has advantages. Re the VW, don't underestimate the importance of lightness. I'd like to own a JPM 1916. ๐
I also really enjoy my EJ25. Kicks over straight away, tunes itself. Give me a 1916 that will do that with OHCs for >$5k, I might consider changing.
"stoopid is stronger than axles"
http://drivingnotpolishing.blogspot.com.au/
http://drivingnotpolishing.blogspot.com.au/
JVLRacing Custom Title Time!
1,100 posts ยท joined Mar 2007 ยท
๐popcorn please
vlad01 Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber
4,270 posts ยท joined Jun 2010 ยท
HEY! where is MY popcorn ๐
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE
Brian Officially Full-On Dubber
263 posts ยท joined Jun 2007 ยท
Craig Torrens wrote:Yell yeah...............Subie power all the way.๐boof2332 wrote:Craig should have changed his avatar along time ago...he is exceptionally strong in the dark side of the force!
You only like subi engines because you are not capable of building a decent vw motor๐๐๐๐๐๐๐
Unless you get Stan to build em for you......
or is that avenue no longer available to you ???
Brian Officially Full-On Dubber
263 posts ยท joined Jun 2007 ยท
The 225kw at the wheels WRX powered Notch was not even as quick as the 1916 non turbo beetles at Nambucca last year !!!!!
or any other year .
So dream on all you subi owners you may win a dyno day but thats about all . ๐๐๐
or any other year .
So dream on all you subi owners you may win a dyno day but thats about all . ๐๐๐
hellbugged 48's and straight cuts
5,080 posts ยท joined Apr 2003 ยท
๐๐๐Brian wrote:The 225kw at the wheels WRX powered Notch was not even as quick as the 1916 non turbo beetles at Nambucca last year !!!!!
or any other year .
So dream on all you subi owners you may win a dyno day but thats about all . ๐๐๐
can't argue with fact there
200Kw thanx and it's heavy too, yes partially due to the lump in the back and water resivoir up front hmmmmmmmm.......... bunch of cowboy drivers โ
horses for courses cause it's quicker than any 1916 N/A at Goulburn by a country mile......however apples and apples being Rudi's turbo injected 1916, the subie is a little behind in both power and times but but but but again we go back to weight, development, driver experience/regularity/ability, gearbox, tyres, BRAKES!
i like the way vw's being hard to start has been mentioned a couple of times ๐........never had that problem......i don't think a VW engine is particularly hard to maintain either
this argument is sooooooooo old.......yet it still confuses me despite having ass in seat access to both sides of the coin..... YAWN!
i like all VW's
matberry Moderator Go hard or go home
8,114 posts ยท joined Mar 2006 ยท
pete wood wrote:WRX
Pos; Cheap, more powerful, more torque, lots of cheap hotup parts, modern engine, factory built.
Neg; HEAVY, not bolt in, need proper gearbox (at some stage), needs a radiator and intercooler.
1916
Pos; light, accepted as engine upgrade for many racing classes.
Neg; OLD engine, exy, limited KMs, needs lots of regular maintainence, rare, hand built.
Truth is, like people have said, apples VS oranges. Each one has advantages. Re the VW, don't underestimate the importance of lightness. I'd like to own a JPM 1916. ๐
I also really enjoy my EJ25. Kicks over straight away, tunes itself. Give me a 1916 that will do that with OHCs for >$5k, I might consider changing.
Brian wrote:Craig Torrens wrote:Yell yeah...............Subie power all the way.๐boof2332 wrote:Craig should have changed his avatar along time ago...he is exceptionally strong in the dark side of the force!
You only like subi engines because you are not capable of building a decent vw motor๐๐๐๐๐๐๐
Unless you get Stan to build em for you......
or is that avenue no longer available to you ???
At last some real arguments that are worth reading.hellbugged wrote:๐๐๐Brian wrote:The 225kw at the wheels WRX powered Notch was not even as quick as the 1916 non turbo beetles at Nambucca last year !!!!!
or any other year .
So dream on all you subi owners you may win a dyno day but thats about all . ๐๐๐
can't argue with fact there
200Kw thanx and it's heavy too, yes partially due to the lump in the back and water resivoir up front hmmmmmmmm.......... bunch of cowboy drivers โ
horses for courses cause it's quicker than any 1916 N/A at Goulburn by a country mile......however apples and apples being Rudi's turbo injected 1916, the subie is a little behind in both power and times but but but but again we go back to weight, development, driver experience/regularity/ability, gearbox, tyres, BRAKES!
i like the way vw's being hard to start has been mentioned a couple of times ๐........never had that problem......i don't think a VW engine is particularly hard to maintain either
this argument is sooooooooo old.......yet it still confuses me despite having ass in seat access to both sides of the coin..... YAWN!
i like all VW's
After the power BS, it comes down to CAR performance, not just kilograms and horsepower!!!
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
JVLRacing Custom Title Time!
1,100 posts ยท joined Mar 2007 ยท
I still remember Damo gettin out of the notch,takin me for a spin around Raliegh raceway....HE WAS SHAKING๐ and i knew he was tryin to impress me๐ The notch has the balls to knock of alot of cars๐ take the weight out forget the rest๐
pete wood 23 Windows of Awesome
6,828 posts ยท joined Jan 2004 ยท
I plead guilty your honour. And I think it's perfectly acceptable. It's like saying you buy a commodore coz you are unable to assemble your own family car. That's most of the population.You only like subi engines because you are not capable of building a decent vw motor...
I'm sure I could learn to build a really great motor, but I don't have the time or the $$$ to pour into learning/tools so a ready built engine by an expert is the way to go. It's also much cheaper than making 20 years of mistakes. I bet it's taken Matt that long to get as good as he is with engines.
BTW, I've said this before and it's still true. I would LOVE to own a really crazy aircooled powered rally car. Can't think of anything more attractive, but the cost is prohibitive.
"stoopid is stronger than axles"
http://drivingnotpolishing.blogspot.com.au/
http://drivingnotpolishing.blogspot.com.au/
hellbugged 48's and straight cuts
5,080 posts ยท joined Apr 2003 ยท
woah ๐pete wood wrote:I'm sure I could learn to build a really great motor, but I don't have the time or the $$$ to pour into learning/tools so a ready built engine by an expert is the way to go. It's also much cheaper than making 20 years of mistakes. I bet it's taken Matt that long to get as good as he is with engines.
yes you could learn, in fact i would say you would already have the knowledge to select a fine array of parts and carefully assemble them........the fact you are on this world wide web means the technics/secrets to assembly are at your finger tips right now!.....also an infinate amount of parts at NOW reasonable prices.
obviously you have never met Matt from that comment........but also having met you, maybe it's come accross wrong Pete.
20 years ago info was harder to come by, but there were still knowledgeable people building awsome reliable aircooled engines......perhaps the technics and theories have not changed much at all, certainly the need to weld standard heads, mix and match and modify components from different origins has somewhat been replaced by the abvailabilty/accessability of "ready" to go gear.......having inspected a set of CNC ported heads the other day, hence the "READY" ๐คช
subaru engines have changed over 20 years too....big factory, lab coated, full time career technicans behind the scenes rather than our favourite VW "names".....at what point will we start saying the first thing to do is tear a new found EJ down before install.......the newer versions are becoming a right chore to fit with the amount of extras they now have compared to the pre 2002 ones?.......so really 10 years at what 15K km per year?............we always seem to over look the fact we are comparing 2nd hand WRX motors to Zero mile VW engines within this debate too.......would comparing a crate EJ even the field in the budget department because the EJ will also need rebuilding at some point.
a brand new aircooled will need attention 100 000 km
after install........so will the 2nd hand EJ that already had 100 000km before you put it in?..........
I've assembled a VW engine ONCE......goes ok (TOUCH WOOD)....
matberry Moderator Go hard or go home
8,114 posts ยท joined Mar 2006 ยท
Awsome feeling that is. Reminds me of when a mate took my old 2332 for a spin, it ran 13.0. His old car was one of the best at the time Subi powered (and cranked boost blah blah) Baja's......well he came back with the adrenalin shakes (like I've done in the same car/track too) and the biggest smile saying how his old engines (VW 2332 IDA....) never came close.JVLRacing wrote:I still remember Damo gettin out of the notch,takin me for a spin around Raliegh raceway....HE WAS SHAKING๐ and i knew he was tryin to impress me๐ The notch has the balls to knock of alot of cars๐ take the weight out forget the rest๐
This is a dude that is a trained air cooled mechanic (motorcycles) and built big VW engines's for himself and his mates. He is a guy that wants the best but often doesn't put in the required effort to finess the best from his engine. These day's I build his cars ๐
What I'm saying is that all things are never equal....... but VW's are certainly capable of surprising even the most power savy.
Yes I've taken years to gain skills that help me in making informed decisions on choosing the right parts for a quality build, but as Daimo and others has said, with the web knowledge base, everyone has so much available to do it themselves BUT, you'll never buy an exchange Volksie that makes 150hp for $1100.......
On a pro VW note, some of the best hipo engines out there make a surprisingly uneventful result on a dyno, but one lap on a good circuit and you may think otherwise. That same engine may read like a very stock based engine. ๐
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
matberry Moderator Go hard or go home
8,114 posts ยท joined Mar 2006 ยท
Actually, ALL my engines have been performers, whether 36hp or 2443pete wood wrote:I bet it's taken Matt that long to get as good as he is with engines.
20 years of mistakes and I can still make them without trying ๐
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE