The Subabeetle project

Joel · 2009-06-06T07:59:04+00:00

OK well i guess its about time i pulled my finger out and started a thread on the conversion ive already started one on VWKD awhile back but have been very slack keeping it updated so most of this is just copied and pasted from it for those that dont know yet im putting an subaru EJ22 in my beetle and im one of these people who likes to do alot of research on things before i start especially something as big as an engine conversion and i found that while plenty of people have done this and made threads about their car noone has really done an indepth thread showing whats involved from go to whoa so ive decided to do that for people that are maybe considering this conversion in the future i'm an ex photography student so be warned you will be bombarded with photos but i find most interested parties generally like it this way anyway Just a quick project overview without trying to bore people to much. ive wanted to subi power a vw for a long time, i fell inlove with the idea after a local put an EJ20T in his superbug convertable back in the mid 90s I do love VW motors, ive grown up with them and have knocked that many toghether over the years i could do it in my sleep. i had planned on always keeping my Lbug pretty well standard and VW powered so in 2001 i bought my 70 beetle which already had already been fitted with a mazda rotary and was going to swap it over to an EJ20T as it was already setup for water cooled engine well that worked...... i sold the car last year cos after nearly 8 years taking up valuable garage realestate i had only got as far as fixing the body and giving it a quick paintjob cos i was too busy always doing something to the Lbug and various other VW projects i dragged home i hadnt ever given any thought to converting the Lbug, being an unmolested car i never had the heart to cut it up or do anything that was irreversable but then i started looking into new 2 projects - Fuel injection and Air conditioning looking at off the shelf EFI kits starting at $3k and even building up myself a junkyard kit wouldnt have left much change out of $1.5k, and mounting a compressor and setting up belts and pulleys on a vw was a hassle id already been thro once already setting up the supercharger so i wasnt sure what direction to take but i definately wanted to step into the 21st century and get away from carbs after almost 10 years ownership i realised i would never sell it and should just make it into what i really wanted so all of a sudden a Subaru conversion was looking more and more attractive i wasnt actively looking for a subaru engine, i was happy enough with my 1776 which is only 4500kms old for the time being but a guy i know locally had just bought a Liberty only to get a few parts from for his and the car was just sitting on his front lawn so i jokingly made him an offer and to my surprise he accepted it had been a well maintiained old ladys car untill some kids decided to use the roof as a trampoline it was still complete and drivable so not only could i see the engine running i was actually able to take it for a good drive that was all it took to convince me, it ran like clockwork, none of the usual subaru lifter clacking or shaking around, the oil and coolant were nice and clean and the sticker on the firewall showed the timing belt was done only 3 years ago with a quality Dayco belt and best of all no oil leaks from the engine, only abit of auto trans oil around the back of the engine and a bit of residual shit around the rocker covers I was told it didnt use any oil either but we'll see, it certainly didnt blow any smoke for people considering going down this route the best advice i can offer is if you have the room and resources get a donor car as apposed to buying the engine and bits main reasons are: everything matches. Subaru changed things on a yearly basis particularly ECUs and more often than not parts are not compatible ive heard horror stories of people buying engines from a wrecker and the loom has been taken from another vehicle and doesnt match the engine there are also lots of small fiddly parts seprate to the engine that are needed but can easily be missed it often works out cheaper to, a whole running car can be bought rusted or damaged for as little as $400 you may pay around $1k just for an engine and loom from a wrecker that u cant hear running and maybe a mis match to, plus compression test figures can be fudged pulling the engine out isnt real difficult but the wiring is a big job and also very delicate and time consuming, wreckers have bad habits of just cutting wires and breaking things being rough with them etc and you can also recoupe costs selling off uneeded stuff from the car and maybe get some cash for scrap with the shell I went the EJ22 for a number of reasons, the main one was fit theyre almost identical in dimensions to a 1600 so theres no body cutting needed except for 2 minor sections of the seal lip cut off the valance in either corner to clear the…

KoenvdW Learner Dubber

2 posts · joined Apr 2011 · 31 Jan 2012, 11:02 pm

#884602

Thank, that helps me alot!

I guess the main power is coming from FB-28 or FB-18?

How did you make the radiator fan relay? Is it possible to send me the email address of this guy Al?

Thanks

Joel Now containing 100\% E-Wang

9,368 posts · joined Feb 2006 · 1 Feb 2012, 10:28 am

#884642

It should be somewhere on his website

http://amauto.com.au/about.html

I'll have to have a look at my rats nest but fairly sure from memory that Yellow is the constant live wire and red wires are ignition power.

Fan relay is pretty easy, if you can find the fan output from the ECU, that is the ground for the fan relay.
Other side of the relay coil just needs an ignition power source.

Craig Torrens 6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion

8,040 posts · joined Jan 2003 · 1 Feb 2012, 11:04 am

#884652

It needs some flared guards 😂

Joel Now containing 100\% E-Wang

9,368 posts · joined Feb 2006 · 1 Feb 2012, 11:10 am

#884654

You'd better be supplying Torana tail lights and a whale tail with them....

Should compliment my Carrera running boards and Jellybeans nicely.

DylanTheDubber Custom Title Time!

1,252 posts · joined Jun 2009 · 1 Feb 2012, 6:17 pm

#884712

Joel,

Im after a pair of careara Side Skirts??

From Dylan

Joel Now containing 100\% E-Wang

9,368 posts · joined Feb 2006 · 1 Feb 2012, 9:27 pm

#884756

Was a joke.
If i had a pair to get rid of you woulda scored them ages ago.

Anyway seeing as this thread has bumped back from the dead there were a couple of other un exciting minor changes that went unoticed.

The new muffler actually went on back in late 2010 for pinkslip.
That old stainless steel canon was only ever temporary and forever breaking apart and being welded back together and was starting to look like big lump of duckshit
Also being cheap chinese shit the fibreglass insulation was starting to disintigrate, made more noticable by the car alarms I was frequently setting off, particularly in undercover carparks.

I really didn't want to lose the note it had, you don't have a subi engine without the subi sound, it's the next best thing to an old carbed V8 rumble, but I needed it quieter so I went and bought one of my favorite Mercury mufflers and a mandrel bend
It;s the exact same dimensions as the canon but being a quality built muffler means its that slightly quieter.

One of the main reasons the canon was always breaking was the two tail pipes were always bottoming out on stuff and transfering the shock through the muffler.
Also my shitty bracketry was mainly to blame.
It all came down to simple mathematics, I had a bracket holding the weight in the wrong spot, the center of the weak sheetmetal at the wrong end.
So my new bracket is at the unsupported tail pipe end of the muffler and is welded to the end cap for extra strength instead of thin sheet metal.

Not gonna win any beauty pagents but it does the job
It's all hidden behind the valance.

Also instead of having the dummy mock tail pipe like the old one I decided to have a single one and finally fit that fibreglass valance.
It seems to scrape alot less than it used too,

I've got some sound test footage using my phone as it amplifies the sound alot more than my video camera so you can hear it better
so excuse the crappy footage and turn up the bass

http://www.youtube.com/user/BoostedVW?feature=mhee#p/u/6/GKnbvyKS0L0

The other change I made was a new coolant overflow bottle.
My existing one was just a washer bottle with the pump removed.
It worked amazingly well but was alittle small in capacity so on really hot summers days it almost filled right up .
so I needed one with a bit more capacity so I bought a universal one but it didn't suit the availble space I had.

As you can imagine there is a million choices out there when it comes to OEM bottles as nearly every model of car has a different configuration bottle, but I had a few requirements which narrowed down my search.
I wanted one that had the inlet and outlet hoses coming in through the lid not the bottom of the bottle so it didn't need draining if it needed removing from the car.
Also one that sat on a slide bracket rather than bolt in place for easy remove and replace.

Both these things means it only takes 10 secs to remove from the car as it doesnt need draining or unbolting, just remove the lid and slide off its bracket.
Also needed one that fitted with my limited space so fairly tall but also narrow in width

So the perfect candidate was from a DB platform Mazda.
which means any 1991 onwards Mazda 121 Bubble or Metro or 1994 and later Ford Festiva.

I came home with one from a 2000 WF Festiva

Unfortunately half the Festiva comes with it as it was attached the Battery tray.

No matter, I just cut off the slide bracket piece I needed, attached it to a bracket and bolted to the engine.

Like a bought one....

Been working like a charm
Even these stinking hot summer days puttering around town with the A/C on which is when the engine is at it's hottest I have seen it get much over the full mark.

Jak Rizzo Insano Dub Head

837 posts · joined Apr 2004 · 2 Feb 2012, 6:07 am

#884784

Hi Joel,

That coolant overflow bottle is the same as mine, I got it out of a Toyota Corrolla
Been working fine for over 7 years now.

Jak

Joel Now containing 100\% E-Wang

9,368 posts · joined Feb 2006 · 2 Feb 2012, 6:11 pm

#884848

Ah yep that takes me back actually, would have been from an AE92 Corolla.

The ex's mother had a 93 Corolla that used to pump oil into the coolant so i had to flush the caramel thick shake out of the cooling system every few weeks as it wasnt worth spending money on so i was well acquainted with the cooling system.

A tribute to Toyota, that little 4a-fe was still running after 70,000kms of doing that with no oil or filter change and nearly 350,000kms on the clock.

I felt bad sending it the wreckers when it had literally been such an indestructable little car.

vlad01 Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber

4,270 posts · joined Jun 2010 · 9 Feb 2012, 3:14 pm

#886014

I am looking at getting a 97-98 corolla this year for a work car coz I hear they are hard to kill and economical.

71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE

Joel Now containing 100\% E-Wang

9,368 posts · joined Feb 2006 · 11 Feb 2012, 9:48 am

#886304

As long as you find one that hasn't been too abused or neglected they are great cars.

As good as Euro engines are I still reckon Japs build the best motors, well excluding Mitsubishi 😂

All of my Toyotas, Nissans and Mazdas as well as ones owned by friends and family have had bullet proof, well built engines.

I havent put enough KMs on my Subaru engines yet rave about them but the amount of trouble free high KM Subarus around speaks for itself.

jmms Learner Dubber

1 post · joined Mar 2012 · 5 Mar 2012, 8:09 pm

#890505

WOW... this thread is flowing with info ....THANKS Joel and all thats been posting.

I've just started a EJ25 conversion on my Rewaco Trike
and will be asking ....allot 🙂 as this is my very first conversion

Some photos:

Joel Now containing 100\% E-Wang

9,368 posts · joined Feb 2006 · 6 Mar 2012, 8:51 am

#890558

Glad it's helping out.

Actually, I would like to follow your progress.
My old man has one of the first batch of fully imported Rewaco trikes.
I'd love to drop an EJ in it but looking at radiator and ECU placement needs some serious planning and things like crash bar and fuel tank need modding.

Dad likes the idea but he is also continually dropping hints about my 1776 VW engine and my old Supercharger setup.

Shuffs Commited Dubber

50 posts · joined Aug 2010 · 6 Mar 2012, 12:32 pm

#890577

Looks like your thread has been hijacked by a Trike conversion.A lot of motor to be putting in a trike,might have trouble keeping the front wheel on the deck!

Joel Now containing 100\% E-Wang

9,368 posts · joined Feb 2006 · 6 Mar 2012, 1:12 pm

#890584

Broken the silence finally.

Well if Leon can keep 2.2 fuel injected twin turbo in a straight line (only just) I'm sure a 2.5 N/A subi will be ok.

Shuffs Commited Dubber

50 posts · joined Aug 2010 · 6 Mar 2012, 1:36 pm

#890596

😀I think his wheelie bars are also a bit of help!

Joel Now containing 100\% E-Wang

9,368 posts · joined Feb 2006 · 6 Mar 2012, 1:49 pm

#890599

While this thread is back at the top and the topic of adaptor kits is going in other thread I'll add something of relevance.
I replaced Seagulls shitty adapter kit with one of John Shermans Volksconversions Kits.

I got stung by not obeying the old Buy once, Cry once rule.
Seagulls kit has held it together for over 30,000kms now but I've had several issues with it from day one.

The thing with all rear mounted VW engines is it doesn't matter if its a 1940s 1100 or an early 90s Caravelle Wasserboxer, they all have an identical locating spigot that centralises the engine to the gearbox.
Seagulls adaptor and alot of other cheap ones made are just machined flat and don't have that locating spigot

It relies on the 4 bolts locating the engine and they can get it close but not spot on the money.

What this does is pulls the gearbox input shaft off center so first thing that goes is the oil seal, then eventually the bearing will start to flog out too.
It also plays with the starter motor and clutch throw out bearing alignment not to mention vibrations and such.
It's only has to be a bee's dick out to start causing problems.

I spent even more $$ getting this spigot machined onto the adaptor plate to correct all these issues

So in the end it ended up costing more than one of Shermans adaptor kits which are made to far better quality.

One other thing about it was Seagulls kit doenst have a new flywheel, its actually an old VW flywheel with the center machined out and a new hub welded in and machined for a Subaru crank.
John machines his flywheels up from scratch.

Although I and a few engineers that have checked over it agree that part has been done to an acceptable standard.

And finally becuase my new EJ25 is a 2005 its one of the newer generation "8 bolt mounting" blocks instead of the old 4 and John's is made to suit these motors
So I've bought one of his and Seagulls will be used for another project
You can see the 2 extra mounting bolts and also the special countersunk bolts in the bottom 2 bolts that John uses.
That stops the interference with the gearbox cradle and rubbers that happens in bugs when normal bolts are used.

The only one regret I have with John's kit is something Brad warned me about.
John uses all old Impreial UNC bolts on his side of things.
His reasoning is if you break a bolt out woop woop somewhere the local bogan Wolf creek garage can probably find something down the back of the workshop to help you out.

Brad used to buy the adaptor plates untapped so they could be tapped for metric threads.

Where this is good is you can use the standard VW mounting studs screwed to the adaptor plate like I did with Seagulls.
John gives you bolts to screw the adaptor to the gearbox which aren;t availble as studs.

And let me say for the record trying to line up and engine with a VW gearbox with no studs to guide you FUCKING SUCKS!!!

Jak Rizzo Insano Dub Head

837 posts · joined Apr 2004 · 7 Mar 2012, 6:05 am

#890690

The only thing I changed on Johns kit was the bolts as well, instead I went to an engineering shop & bought some chromoly threaded rod & made my own bolts as the ones supplied just looked cheap & fragile.

Jak

1303Steve Scirocco Rare

8,650 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 7 Mar 2012, 7:25 am

#890696

Hi

I bought my 1st kit from Unicap, it had the ridge machined in to it but used a modified VW flywheel. Unicap has been a VW Nationals sponsor for years.

Steve

kombibob AKA: Volkswagen Type 2 Transporter Van Robert

1,698 posts · joined May 2004 · 7 Mar 2012, 7:40 am

#890703

Yep I had the same problems with the cheaper adapter plate flogging out input shaft seals, replaced it with a Sherman and have been trouble free since.

1961 swb buggy
1960 karmann ghia
1963 Single Cab: "El Concreto"
1963 bent 23 window " Frieda Samba "
1963 Eriba Faun camper " Cara Van daCamp"
2012 Skoda Octavia scout

Get down low and go,go,go

ian.mezz I never said, I could write or spell

3,913 posts · joined Sep 2004 · 7 Mar 2012, 9:14 am

#890714

I got JVL old adaptor and the thing was out buy about 5mm and the starter never meshed in proper , once you added about two auto washer behind the flywheel the starter would work fine 😊

😂🤪😂🤪😂
car forums. where a lot of peoples good intentions end up taking a good old car off the road forever never ever to see the road again. 🥲

BlueV2 Seriously Crusin Dubber

193 posts · joined Apr 2008 · 7 Mar 2012, 9:21 am

#890718

You can buy them from Sharpbuilt with the ridge machined in and with metric bolts and studs.

Sharpbuilt V2, EJ25, Subaru 5 Speed, Falcon rear discs, Heater & A/C, Rack Steering

Joel Now containing 100\% E-Wang

9,368 posts · joined Feb 2006 · 7 Mar 2012, 10:43 am

#890725

Another classy repair Ian 😉

If I was pulling the engine on a regular basis I'd do something about it.

Jak, was the threaded rod hard to get?

tried the bolt bahn and they can get threaded rod in mild steel but not high tensile so I left it.

Jak Rizzo Insano Dub Head

837 posts · joined Apr 2004 · 7 Mar 2012, 3:11 pm

#890757

I don't know if it's hard to find as I got it at my local Engineering nut & bolt store first go. it's very very tough stuff, i cut them to length by hand, 1 blade equaled 1 cut ! took forever too.

Jak

Jak Rizzo Insano Dub Head

837 posts · joined Apr 2004 · 7 Mar 2012, 3:15 pm

#890759

ian.mezz wrote:I got JVL old adaptor and the thing was out buy about 5mm and the starter never meshed in proper , once you added about two auto washer behind the flywheel the starter would work fine 😊

maybe that explain's why JVL's car never ran? the starter motor couldn't work properly😂

Aaaah, the simplest things.

JVLRacing Custom Title Time!

1,100 posts · joined Mar 2007 · 7 Mar 2012, 5:36 pm

#890768

Jak Rizzo wrote:
ian.mezz wrote:I got JVL old adaptor and the thing was out buy about 5mm and the starter never meshed in proper , once you added about two auto washer behind the flywheel the starter would work fine 😊
maybe that explain's why JVL's car never ran? the starter motor couldn't work properly😂

Aaaah, the simplest things.

ouch! Jako the expert.....🙅
Hey Ian wat starter are u using?

Joel Now containing 100\% E-Wang

9,368 posts · joined Feb 2006 · 7 Mar 2012, 5:45 pm

#890769

Owww says my inbox.

Cheers Jak, might chase that up next time theres a reason to pull out.

Gearbox failure will be my guess.

Jak Rizzo Insano Dub Head

837 posts · joined Apr 2004 · 8 Mar 2012, 7:45 am

#890850

JVLRacing wrote:ouch! Jako the expert.....🙅

Yes, in comparison to you I'm a Nobel Prize Winner😂

JVLRacing Custom Title Time!

1,100 posts · joined Mar 2007 · 8 Mar 2012, 7:55 am

#890851

Jak Rizzo wrote:
JVLRacing wrote:ouch! Jako the expert.....🙅
Yes, in comparison to you I'm a Nobel Prize Winner😂

Dont be mad jako😂

iwantbus Learner Dubber

5 posts · joined Feb 2011 · 11 Mar 2012, 12:17 pm

#891316

I have been reading this thread for awhile now and I have learned a lot, just wanted to say thanks.

iwantbus Learner Dubber

5 posts · joined Feb 2011 · 11 Mar 2012, 12:18 pm

#891317

Oh and by the way my project is my 74 Bay window bus that now has an EJ25 DOHC motor in it now.
No where near complete and this is the reason I am reading here....wiring and cooling are killing me!