Hi Wayne, awsome work as always.
All this clutch talk, so I may as well add my 2c. I'd call the tapered disc as a flexing flywheel, I'm sure it would have crossed your mind. Our clutch guy's have commented re Kenedy's specification compared with custom designed/built local product. Jim Berry (no relation) has over 40 years of engineering clutches and can supply a single disc setup that will handle well over 500 hp. He has designed and built single disc, 200mm clutches that held onto the turbo skyline touring cars from the nineties and many many more since. His speciality is a non distorting high clamp force with minimal pedal pressure.
Maybe give him a call.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
hypo-vwAustralias 1st 10sec street beetle (Jan 2007) 10.49secs@132m
matberry wrote:I'd call the tapered disc as a flexing flywheel
thanks for the imput everyone , I do enjoy reading others opinions and experiences as it is helpful information to all of us .
after measuring the clutch disc lining and finding it tapered a little over .5mm , I gave the disc to my father Allan who put it in his lathe to check and machine it . He found that the material on the flywheel side was perfectly straight and the material on the pressure plate side was badly worn tapered .
I then put a straight edge across the pressure plate shoe to find it grossly distorted due to excessive heat . I have been riding the clutch too hard and for too long when staging my oval with the staging brake . I will have to change my staging habits to be a lot easier on the clutch assembly .
the engine is fitted back into the oval and I had clearance issues with the blow-off valve . I then removed the cross-over tube and repositioned the blow-off valve at an angle to the right and now everything clears .
I then changed all the boost lines from the turbo to the wastegate with new stainless braided lines and Aeroflow fittings .
the MSD ignition control box and coil are installed and wired-up
Cindy models the new 3 1/2" exhaust tubing , getting her hand right to the other end .
The turbo exhaust outlet is connected with the 3.5" mandrel bends and the ovals' engine is fired-up .
All sounds good for the dyno on Tuesday afternoon
well my turbo oval ran well at WSID VW Showdown 2012 taking out quickest ET & speed for the weekend with a pass of 10.13@139.70mph
After putting my oval on the dyno thursday afternoon I could not get it to make power and it had a high RPM misfire . The new MSD ignition was giving electrical interference with the microtec EFI ecu . Back to the WPVW workshop , remove the MSD and loom and reinstall the promaster coil ignition .
Friday morning back on the dyno and the oval will only make 380rwhp . This is 65rwhp less than the last race meeting at Warwick 2011 . I still ran my oval with a very fat , but safe tune and it went ok but I only made 1 full throttle pass as the air intake temps are far too high . I now have to do more homework with the air intake temps before running the Sydney Jamboree March 31 .
below are some pics from this event of my turbo oval
Wayne ! Turbo is starting to look good to me !👍
The run you had with Rod was Tuff , cool , very close . You had a little trouble keeping straight , Left front wheel power standing first 3 gears , Then Rod broke out by 200's . That tuff race .
Hope you find the power loss , any idea's ?
What was you best 1/8 mile time ?
Well done Wayne and crew .
hypo-vwAustralias 1st 10sec street beetle (Jan 2007) 10.49secs@132m
Dak-A-Tak wrote:Hope you find the power loss , any idea's ?
What was you best 1/8 mile time ?
thanks Pete . Haven't looked into the power loss yet as I have been busy with customer work . Got back from WSID , drain fuel systems on all 3 cars and packed them away . I will have to drag the oval out early next week and go back to square one with it . Compression test , check for intake leaks etc , then manufacture a cold air intake duct to the turbo and I might even reinstall my air-water intercooler . I dont really want to carry the extra 20kg but the engines health is no.1 priority to me . I am looking into running 2 extra injectors at the intake of the turbo to spray methanol into the turbo at and above a preset boost level to cool the intake air charge . Will keep you posted on developments .
best 1/8 time at WSID was 6.59@111.74 compared to Warwick 2011 on a slippery surface 6.33@113 . 2 tenths faster would have put my oval into the 9sec category . Wayne
Dak-A-Tak wrote:Hope you find the power loss , any idea's ?
What was you best 1/8 mile time ?
thanks Pete . Haven't looked into the power loss yet as I have been busy with customer work . Got back from WSID , drain fuel systems on all 3 cars and packed them away . I will have to drag the oval out early next week and go back to square one with it . Compression test , check for intake leaks etc , then manufacture a cold air intake duct to the turbo and I might even reinstall my air-water intercooler . I dont really want to carry the extra 20kg but the engines health is no.1 priority to me . I am looking into running 2 extra injectors at the intake of the turbo to spray methanol into the turbo at and above a preset boost level to cool the intake air charge . Will keep you posted on developments .
best 1/8 time at WSID was 6.59@111.74 compared to Warwick 2011 on a slippery surface 6.33@113 . 2 tenths faster would have put my oval into the 9sec category . Wayne
Hi Wayne,
the addition of a single extra nozzle at the turbo OUTLET is a good way to cool the charge as it leaves the compressor.
I have seen the instant atomisation cool the pipe enough so that you wont need to add that extra 20kg.
It seems to work better than introducing the fuel before the compressor.
Jeff Watson did this to his little Sprite in the late nineties and it was the improvement he needed to get him from high eights to consistent low eights.
Jeff Watson did this to his little Sprite in the late nineties and it was the improvement he needed to get him from high eights to consistent low eights.
Damn that was a scary little hotrod...... 😂
hypo-vwAustralias 1st 10sec street beetle (Jan 2007) 10.49secs@132m
dangerous wrote:the addition of a single extra nozzle at the turbo OUTLET is a good way to cool the charge as it leaves the compressor.
It seems to work better than introducing the fuel before the compressor
thanks Dave , I can see where this will work quite well . I will have discussions with a couple of dudes that are keeping tabs on what I am doing with my turbo engine and will keep you posted on developments .
Your input is very much appreciated as I am breaking new ground with type-4 performance and have to tread very carefully as the surface I proceed on is very thin and slippery , one wrong step and it will all come crashing down around me . Wayne🤪🤪
I'm loving what you are doing Wayne!! Over the last few years you have had 2 steps forward and one step back but it seems of late each step is going that bit further in the right direction!! You are thinking outside the square( the type 1 square lol) by using a type 4 based engine to make some real nice hp!! An underrated engine to most but the potential of them is huge!! Certainly not cheap but neither is building a reliable type 1 based engine especially if it's going to run big boost!! Troy can testify to that!
Hopefully the power loss is something that is a simple fix!!
ACCEPT THAT SOME DAYS YOU ARE THE PIDGEON AND SOME DAYS YOU ARE THE STATUE
Dak-A-Tak wrote:Wayne ! The run you had with Rod was Tuff , cool , very close . You had a little trouble keeping straight , Left front wheel power standing first 3 gears , Then Rod broke out by 200's . That tuff race .
2443TT wrote:Just curious about your MSD issues Wayne. What kind of plugs and plug leads were you using?
I am using resistor type plugs with good quality 8mm Eagle plug leads . The leads are not spiral wire core , so it confuses me as to why this is happeneing . A very reliable source tells me that the super high output ignition system will not work well with a distributor as there is a tendency for arching inside the cap and also crossfire , however I am using this system in Chris Boltons turbo bug with a distributor and it is sensational . I will talk to Microtec Aust regarding this and see if they have had past experiences with MSD interference
Black64 wrote:Nice car, great looking engine, how do you keep it cool or does it only get used for the 1/4?
thanks for your positive comments , this is my drag engine so I dont run cooling accessories . The alcohol fuel keeps it pretty cool . When driving my oval on the street , I have another type-4 engine with Porsche cooling fan and shroud .
Believe it or not Wayne.... When I first fitted my MSD leads (which I made to suit), I had interference issues with the Megajolt system.... Originally I had the leads to 3 & 4 running along the intake runner with the sensor harness (none shielded 20g wires) there also.... Fixed the issue by rerouting the leads away from the sensor harness.... So I guess what I'm saying is.... Are the leads running near any other ignition or sensor harnesses?
humpty wrote:Believe it or not Wayne.... When I first fitted my MSD leads (which I made to suit), I had interference issues with the Megajolt system.... Originally I had the leads to 3 & 4 running along the intake runner with the sensor harness (none shielded 20g wires) there also.... Fixed the issue by rerouting the leads away from the sensor harness.... So I guess what I'm saying is.... Are the leads running near any other ignition or sensor harnesses?
Im with humpty here. Interference issue can be a major pain in the ass. Different ecu's behave and report errors differently too, so it can be tricky to diagnose.
Running the sensor harness seperate and shielded from all other wiring really helps eliminate issues considerably.
Also reluctor sensor triggering is more sensative to RF and high voltage spikes. Changing to a hall effect sensor which produces a clean 12V square wave output cures many evils. It fixed the issues I was having.
The only other thing Ive ever encountered was that a really good ignition system will amplify any earthing issues you have, so running at least 2 earths from the engine/tranny to the pan helps with that.
hypo-vwAustralias 1st 10sec street beetle (Jan 2007) 10.49secs@132m
thanks for the input guys , I think earthing issues could be eliminated as the engine and tranny are solid mounted to the chassis & body in my oval in 7 different locations .
I think my coil lead runs too close to the wiring loom ..... I will rectify this and reinstall the MSD before another dyno session next week
hypo-vw wrote:I will rectify this and reinstall the MSD before another dyno session next week
well my dyno session on the oval might have to be put back a couple of days . tonight I put the oval back in the shop , removed the spark plugs , did a compression test and found No.4 cylinder down to just 25psi ....not good !! to add to this I had a visual look down each plug hole and found what I suspect is a cracked piston on No.2 cylinder .
I did fear that damage may have occured to the pistons and/or ringlands as at WSID I experienced what I now believe to be detonation on each run just before the finish line due to excessively high air intake temps . On the day I thought it might have been lifting a head but the engine shows no signs of leakage between the heads and barrels .
tonight I removed the engine and tomorrow night I will remove the heads & barrels for inspection
Bummer Wayne.
I have been thinking about this a bit, and there may be an underlying factor.
Whilst I never had a chance to put a thermocouple in my blowers,
the Autorotor specs said there would be a temp rise of about 100 degrees C at 30psi.
A turbo should be less than this.
I had as much as 42psi and 10:1 comp
and in hindsight, I could have been better off with less ignition timing,
but other than that,
there were not really any symptoms that were not sorted with fuel delivery.
Perhaps there is a restriction on the exhaust side that is heating the incoming charge on overlap?
More exh port volume, or larger A/R turbine housing are possible areas to work with.
Have you considered runing a water/meth system with nozzles both pre and post turbo? I run two 150cc pre turbo and a 300cc post intercooler setup on my skyline. The effects are pretty impressive.
On a hot day of 38 degrees when stuck in traffic it is not uncommon to see a heat soaked temp of 60 degress at the intake. Get on boost and with the water/meth operating, it immediatly knocks 15 to 20 degrees out of the air temps post intercooler. I am sure that it is actually more than this too, because the air temp sensor is slow to react and I don't ever get to see the temp drop curve stabilise at a lowerst value before having to get off the throttle.
Another benefit was being about to run 26lb boost with 25 degrees of ignition with 12.8:1 AFR's while maintaining EGT's below 830 degrees. The knock monitoring system records noise values lower than I used to see with just pump fuel and much less boost.
If I had to guess, its probably a combination of your air temps and your elevated EGT's and combustion chamber temps that are causing your detonation issues at the top end of the track. Ive seen this on methanol burning v8's too. There is a point in the top end of the rev range when under max load where they have to drown the engine in fuel to keep EGT's down. Ive always felt that even a tiny bit of water injection post turbo would do wonders for these methanol burners by eliminating the hot spots in the combustion chambers.
