Intercooler Location

Smiley Veteran Volks Folk

2,125 posts · joined Oct 2008 · 3 Apr 2012, 6:13 pm

#895262

Hey everyone.

Just something I've been pondering for a little while.

When fitting an intercooler to a force inducted car, does it matter if it's fitted before or after the turbo/blower?

It seems to be common practice to fit them after the compressor, but I figured if the turbo/blower heats the air up by X and then the cooler cools it down by Y, then it wouldn't matter which order that they are in.

If anyone has any more experience on this I'd love for you to give your advice.

Smiley 🙂

If you said I was a Volkswagen man, you'd be right.

ian.mezz I never said, I could write or spell

3,913 posts · joined Sep 2004 · 3 Apr 2012, 6:42 pm

#895265

EFI or Carby ???

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car forums. where a lot of peoples good intentions end up taking a good old car off the road forever never ever to see the road again. 🥲

Joel Now containing 100\% E-Wang

9,368 posts · joined Feb 2006 · 3 Apr 2012, 7:07 pm

#895271

It's gotta be after.

Compressing air by a turbo or supercharger generates heat.
intercooler just sheds some of that heat so putting it before is not going to do anything except add weight.

Come on Mr Mezz you having one of them fancy turbo and intercooler thingys in your bug like I don't should know that one 😉

Although interfoolers impress the chicks even when a turbo isn't necessary 😂
also be sure to mount the number plate to the side for maximum respect...

mactaylor Custom Title Time!

1,005 posts · joined Aug 2007 · 3 Apr 2012, 8:31 pm

#895288

its called the law of diminishing returns!

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Smiley Veteran Volks Folk

2,125 posts · joined Oct 2008 · 3 Apr 2012, 9:12 pm

#895299

I don't think it matters if it's EFI or Carbied. Principle is the same on both.

I thought that you would chime in Joel, and I knew thqat if you did you'd have the answers.

When you ran the SC12 in your car did you give any consideration to an intercooler? Did the engine temps go up by any noticeable amount? Was the oil hotter?

Smiley 🙂

If you said I was a Volkswagen man, you'd be right.

Joel Now containing 100\% E-Wang

9,368 posts · joined Feb 2006 · 3 Apr 2012, 9:46 pm

#895313

Yep EFI and carb doesn't matter unless its draw through carb which brings me to my blower.

Cant run an intercooler with a draw through carb setup.
Because the fuel mix is going through the blower/turbo you cant then feed that through the intercooler, good chance it could explode, not to mention the fuel wouldnt stay in suspension as a vapour so engine wouldn't run too well.

Wouldnt matter if it was EFI though as only air is going through, 4Agze toytoas that SC12s come off are intercooled draw through but efi.

The answer for carbed draw through setups is water injection.

Smiley Veteran Volks Folk

2,125 posts · joined Oct 2008 · 3 Apr 2012, 10:00 pm

#895316

I see. Very good information.

Did your engine run hotter at all?

I think you would have to run some sort of intercooler/water injection if you wanted the engine to last a decent amount of time. To keep the inlet temps down and the heads running cooler.

Smiley 🙂

If you said I was a Volkswagen man, you'd be right.

Joel Now containing 100\% E-Wang

9,368 posts · joined Feb 2006 · 4 Apr 2012, 9:33 pm

#895434

Nah not with the boost I ran.

Intake temp and boost are related, the more you crank the boost up the more heat is generated.

It really depends on so many things but if boost levels are kept sensible engines can live high mileage.
100s of factory turbo model cars never had intercoolers.

Smiley Veteran Volks Folk

2,125 posts · joined Oct 2008 · 4 Apr 2012, 10:18 pm

#895440

Ok. Here's a question for those playing at home.

Lets say we have a fuel injected system with a supercharger and an intercooler. Does the throttle body go before or after the blower? And if after does it go before or after the intercooler?

Smiley 🙂

If you said I was a Volkswagen man, you'd be right.

Joel Now containing 100\% E-Wang

9,368 posts · joined Feb 2006 · 4 Apr 2012, 10:38 pm

#895446

The TB can go either side but if it goes after (blow through) you need a blow off valve to vent boost on throttle shut to stop compressor surge and blowing intake hoses.

Smiley Veteran Volks Folk

2,125 posts · joined Oct 2008 · 4 Apr 2012, 10:52 pm

#895447

Joel wrote:The TB can go either side but if it goes after (blow through) you need a blow off valve to vent boost on throttle shut to stop compressor surge and blowing intake hoses.

So with a fuel injected setup are there any other advantages/disadvantages of a blow through compared to a draw through??

Smiley 🙂

If you said I was a Volkswagen man, you'd be right.

vlad01 Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber

4,270 posts · joined Jun 2010 · 5 Apr 2012, 11:37 am

#895482

Joel wrote:Yep EFI and carb doesn't matter unless its draw through carb which brings me to my blower.

Cant run an intercooler with a draw through carb setup.
Because the fuel mix is going through the blower/turbo you cant then feed that through the intercooler, good chance it could explode, not to mention the fuel wouldnt stay in suspension as a vapour so engine wouldn't run too well.

Wouldnt matter if it was EFI though as only air is going through, 4Agze toytoas that SC12s come off are intercooled draw through but efi.

The answer for carbed draw through setups is water injection.

Yes and also the intercooler will condense the AF mixture back to liquid fuel from the cooling effect and large internal surface area.

71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE

vlad01 Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber

4,270 posts · joined Jun 2010 · 5 Apr 2012, 11:40 am

#895484

Joel wrote:The TB can go either side but if it goes after (blow through) you need a blow off valve to vent boost on throttle shut to stop compressor surge and blowing intake hoses.

not to mention possibly damaging the turbine by stalling it.

71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE

vlad01 Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber

4,270 posts · joined Jun 2010 · 5 Apr 2012, 11:44 am

#895485

Smiley wrote:
Joel wrote:The TB can go either side but if it goes after (blow through) you need a blow off valve to vent boost on throttle shut to stop compressor surge and blowing intake hoses.
So with a fuel injected setup are there any other advantages/disadvantages of a blow through compared to a draw through??

Smiley 🙂

well draw through on efi would be just plain stupid. but yeah EFI has tons of advantages over carby, with little disadvantage (dependent on the person)

in my eyes efi has no disadvantage and all advantage.

71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE

Joel Now containing 100\% E-Wang

9,368 posts · joined Feb 2006 · 5 Apr 2012, 1:56 pm

#895503

vlad01 wrote:
Joel wrote:The TB can go either side but if it goes after (blow through) you need a blow off valve to vent boost on throttle shut to stop compressor surge and blowing intake hoses.
not to mention possibly damaging the turbine by stalling it.

Yeah, that's compressor surge, it's takes alot to do damage, alot of the boy racers think its fully sick to make the Flutterz yo.
I dunno what they're on about I reckon it sounds absolutely stupid.

But that's one of the upsides to a draw through EFI system, you don't get compressor surge.

Draw through EFI isn't that stupid, all of Toyota's Supercharged GZE setups are intercooled draw through.
Works well with the stock air bypass setup.
Just runs N/A till you really get on the noise pedal then the bypass shuts and the blower clutch pulls in with a nice smooth transition.

Smiley Veteran Volks Folk

2,125 posts · joined Oct 2008 · 5 Apr 2012, 4:46 pm

#895524

vlad01 wrote:well draw through on efi would be just plain stupid. but yeah EFI has tons of advantages over carby, with little disadvantage (dependent on the person)

in my eyes efi has no disadvantage and all advantage.

I agree with you that EFI has a lot of major advantages, but could you explain exactly why a draw through fuel injected system is just plain stupid?

Smiley 🙂

If you said I was a Volkswagen man, you'd be right.

Flintstones Custom Title Time!

1,077 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 8 Apr 2012, 10:46 pm

#896025

Joel wrote:Cant run an intercooler with a draw through carb setup.

I'm guessing you aren't aware of Chad Tostenson 10 sec street driven beetle then.
He's proved that you can.

Personally I wouldn't try draw thru with an A2A cooler or on a conventional motor......

Cheers

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Joel Now containing 100\% E-Wang

9,368 posts · joined Feb 2006 · 9 Apr 2012, 8:34 am

#896054

Yeah I'm aware of it, there's been a few threads on Shoptalk forums about it but you can't compare that to your average back yard force fed conversion running on oridinary pump fuel and besides look at the size of it, w2a charge coolers are more effecient and compact yes but it's still tiny and wouldn't be doing all that much on an engine that size.