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oxyboxer or kombi 2lt motor or suby

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bugzla Custom Title Time!

1,164 posts · joined Jun 2007 ·

#936825
im tossing up on rebuilding my 1.8ltr kombi motor or converting an wasserboxer to air what are the advantages and disadvantages between the 2 rebuilds it will be street driven every day in my beach buggy i like the look of mickh's ej22 conversion but would like to stay aircooled because of radiator placement and panel cutting i dont know wether to go down that road any input would be great

cheers
stevo

vlad01 Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber

4,270 posts · joined Jun 2010 ·

#936873
stick with the type 4 or suby.

wasserboxer still retains the type 1 bottom end as far as I understand and said to be not as bullet proof as the type 4 or suby engine in the bottom end department. and a lot of work involved to make a oxyboxer from a not as good foundation so it doesn't make any sense to do it.

71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE

mactaylor Custom Title Time!

1,005 posts · joined Aug 2007 ·

#936880
wasser bottom ends are awesome! prob the best flat four vw ever produced. there are a few BIG hp turbo wassers getting around. do some reading on shoptalk.
EVERLAST CONCRETE TANKS
1800 552 123

hellbugged 48's and straight cuts

5,080 posts · joined Apr 2003 ·

#936881
mactaylor wrote:wasser bottom ends are awesome! prob the best flat four vw ever produced. there are a few BIG hp turbo wassers getting around. do some reading on shoptalk.
X2 😘

mactaylor Custom Title Time!

1,005 posts · joined Aug 2007 ·

#936887
hellbugged wrote:
mactaylor wrote:wasser bottom ends are awesome! prob the best flat four vw ever produced. there are a few BIG hp turbo wassers getting around. do some reading on shoptalk.
X2 😘
great minds!
EVERLAST CONCRETE TANKS
1800 552 123

matberry Moderator Go hard or go home

8,114 posts · joined Mar 2006 ·

#936892
hellbugged wrote:
mactaylor wrote:wasser bottom ends are awesome! prob the best flat four vw ever produced. there are a few BIG hp turbo wassers getting around. do some reading on shoptalk.
X2 😘
x3

Wasser bottom ends are STRONG, but unless you really know your stuff and can do most of the build yourself, expect to spend plenty.

If it's a more mild engine with budget constraints, I'd recommend using the 1800, either offset grind the crank into a 2.0 litre or put in a bigger one 😉
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE

Bone Officially Full-On Dubber

299 posts · joined Aug 2009 ·

#936898
My experience recently is EJ22. The whole conversion cost under $2000 including donor car. I done all the conversion myself excluding the wiring loom cutdown. (AM auto Noosa)
So for ME this combo is great in a baja as I can hide my radiator up front behind nose. Im very happy with the power, economy and smoothness of it and availability for engines if need be.
I have never heard ANYONE say "I regret this and want to go back to type 1 or 4 vw donk. I think you should do the sums and also test drive a EJ22 powered buggy if possible. I'm not discouraging Type 4 powered buggy but the subi option was best for myself.

SuperOwen Fahrvergnugen

868 posts · joined Jan 2009 ·

#936910
An oxyboxer conversion isn't the hardest thing in the world, but unless your a backyard machinist I would steer clear. I tried years ago, the studs were seized and snapped in the case and were a nightmare to get out and the 76mm crank was bent and cracked. This was before I could just buy a preclearanced CB aluminium case, which is the way I would go now. The German wasserboxer case may be better material but not sure if it's worth all the effort.

Subi's may not be perfect but make a lot of sense I think.

coletrickle Wolfsburg Wizard

661 posts · joined Apr 2009 ·

#936914
Only plus I can see in a subi is it's cheap other than that they have don't have a lot going for them.As an example what can you fix on the side of the road/ track?

SuperOwen Fahrvergnugen

868 posts · joined Jan 2009 ·

#936917
If that was a valid argument we would all still be riding horses. The whole point is they shouldn't need fixing on the side of the road or track!!

11CAB If ya got it....Baja it

4,674 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#936920
It's always funny the Subaru haters always say how easy their VW's are to fix on the side of the road, but the subaru's aren't breaking down to need to worry about it....
65 Meyers Manx
68 Country Buggy (KO 367)
68 Country Buggy (KO 669)
68 Country Buggy (KO 789)
68 Country Buggy (KO 815)
68 Baja Bug
76 Baja Kombi Twincab

Smiley Veteran Volks Folk

2,125 posts · joined Oct 2008 ·

#936922
11CAB wrote:It's always funny the Subaru haters always say how easy their VW's are to fix on the side of the road, but the subaru's aren't breaking down to need to worry about it....
I think the same thing but for the opposite reason.

A VW engine shouldn't need fixing on the side of the road. I've never had any troubles whatsoever in mine. They are very reliable is you service them regularly and keep them maintained. Just like anything mechanical really.



Smiley 🙂
If you said I was a Volkswagen man, you'd be right.

SuperOwen Fahrvergnugen

868 posts · joined Jan 2009 ·

#936924
I wonder if datsun forums have these little fights between "purists" and guys who stick SR20's in 😂

coletrickle Wolfsburg Wizard

661 posts · joined Apr 2009 ·

#936926
11CAB wrote:It's always funny the Subaru haters always say how easy their VW's are to fix on the side of the road, but the subaru's aren't breaking down to need to worry about it....
Thanks for calling me a hater,appreciate it.
Ok your out offloading in your Subaru and any of the following happen what are you going to do?
Subaru speedo pod burns out the circuit board.
Speed sensor fails.
Cam sensor fails.
Subaru ignition assembly(bit where the key goes).
Cambelt tensioner seizes.
Throttle position sensor fails.
Just saying there is a lot more hi tec things to go wrong and with all the bashing around etc.And at my mates subaru shop he's not short of work stock or modified they still have problems.
Also I'm pretty sure a lot of people contemplating a conversion of any kind really don't have a grasp of how good an aircooled VW can be.Maybe after the Sydney VW event I'll pull my motor out and stick it in Mattys mullet?

11CAB If ya got it....Baja it

4,674 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#936932
It's no different to Hotrods..... Cool looking car with modern running gear, you don't hear those guys saying stick to ya old side valve engine so you won't get stuck on the side of the road
65 Meyers Manx
68 Country Buggy (KO 367)
68 Country Buggy (KO 669)
68 Country Buggy (KO 789)
68 Country Buggy (KO 815)
68 Baja Bug
76 Baja Kombi Twincab

SuperOwen Fahrvergnugen

868 posts · joined Jan 2009 ·

#936936
"Ok your out offroading in your Subaru and any of the following happen what are you going to do?"

Ask this guy, he might know...😂

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coletrickle Wolfsburg Wizard

661 posts · joined Apr 2009 ·

#936937
SuperOwen wrote:"Ok your out offroading in your Subaru and any of the following happen what are you going to do?"

Ask this guy, he might know...😂
Appreciate the humor but those etc cars have no bearing on what is being discussed here?so like I said what are you gonna do when those things go wrong?

psimitar Son of Jim - Creator of Good

2,506 posts · joined Jan 2009 ·

#936938
Subie is super reliable with instant cheap power but if you wanna stay aircooled then read up on the wasser conversion.

Very strong case/crank and if you can do most the work yourself should be cheaper than a t4 engine rebuild.

There used to be a whole blog/site of a guy who did the entire conversion himself. Ended up with a torquey, reliable engine.
madness is in the eye of the beholder 👍

matberry Moderator Go hard or go home

8,114 posts · joined Mar 2006 ·

#936945
If you want water, you could stick in a wasser. All VW, no conversions required. Baja exhaust bolts on with minimal modifiaction and I've seen more hp/lb of boost with the VW watercooled flat four AND no extra weight out the back with the heavier ohc components.

Don't get me wrong, there is a lot going for Suby, but as Col said, many people don't get to see what a good reliable hipo VW can go like. A well built air-cooled installation will do many hundreds of thousands of kilometers, although with some more maintenance required with tappet adjustments.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE

coletrickle Wolfsburg Wizard

661 posts · joined Apr 2009 ·

#936950
matberry wrote:If you want water, you could stick in a wasser. All VW, no conversions required. Baja exhaust bolts on with minimal modifiaction and I've seen more hp/lb of boost with the VW watercooled flat four AND no extra weight out the back with the heavier ohc components.

Don't get me wrong, there is a lot going for Suby, but as Col said, many people don't get to see what a good reliable hipo VW can go like. A well built air-cooled installation will do many hundreds of thousands of kilometers, although with some more maintenance required with tappet adjustments.
Amen brother and praise be to cheese's

66deluxe Custom Title Time!

1,593 posts · joined Aug 2005 ·

#936955
Or you could do this. A wasser converted to upright with a radiator in the fan shroud.
This is my Volkswagen, there are many like it, but this one is mine. Without me my Volkswagen is useless, without my Volkswagen, I am useless.

61 Karmann Ghia 2110cc type1 w Los Panchito's
66 Deluxe Beetle 2270 type 4
10 Subaru WRX Impreza

coletrickle Wolfsburg Wizard

661 posts · joined Apr 2009 ·

#936961
Dam daimo that is a sweet looking engine!

ragged Just ask if you need HELP!

478 posts · joined Jan 2005 ·

#936973
The biggest problem for me is the radiator. But I don't have a problem with is setup.
I have plans for a 2l type 4 using hydraulic tappets and fuel injection and electronic ignition. Other than changing the oil, I just plan to drive it.
66deluxe wrote:Or you could do this. A wasser converted to upright with a radiator in the fan shroud.

Bone Officially Full-On Dubber

299 posts · joined Aug 2009 ·

#936975
bugzla wrote:im tossing up on rebuilding my 1.8ltr kombi motor or converting an wasserboxer to air what are the advantages and disadvantages between the 2 rebuilds it will be street driven every day in my beach buggy i like the look of mickh's ej22 conversion but would like to stay aircooled because of radiator placement and panel cutting i dont know wether to go down that road any input would be great

cheers
stevo
Buggies are always a bit of a drain on the wallet. (Maintenance ,upgrades ect) So if you a want great power plant out back that doesn't need tuning has a smooth firing order and factory EFI reliability , that won't keep costing you $$$$ just go EJ22 and your done. ..

SuperOwen Fahrvergnugen

868 posts · joined Jan 2009 ·

#936986
coletrickle wrote:
SuperOwen wrote:"Ok your out offroading in your Subaru and any of the following happen what are you going to do?"

Ask this guy, he might know...😂
Appreciate the humor but those etc cars have no bearing on what is being discussed here?so like I said what are you gonna do when those things go wrong?
Yeah, just joking around, I think that guy has an entire pit crew and truck full spares when things break down!! Al uxury most of us dont have...

Curious to know how well that upright wbx works, nice self contained solution, looks nice anyway.

DubCrazy Custom Title Time!

1,295 posts · joined Jul 2003 ·

#936998
had both aircooled and subi powered baja's and both had plus points,

aircooled, simple easy but lacking power unless u spend a fair bit but they just keep going if looked after and if they do stuff up when out its normally a easy fix

subi, cheap power and reliability but many more "gizmos" to stuff up and u need computers to tune (im not a mechanic so every time i wanted it tune it had to goto a garage as i had no frigging idea even after i fitted a aftermarket microtech lt10 with hand controller)


neither let me down when offroading and the subi was a better set up and had power to waste but the aircooled did it all just not as quick, just ask smiley he managed to go everwhere i did with a standard 1600 while i had turbo power, i just did it quicker :P

if i was to build another baja i would go a worked aircooled engine purely for the ease of maintenance , im building a kombi right now and that will be subi for ease of highway cruzing and i want a/c 🙂

go with what ever u like the idea the best, so many arguments for and against for both engines it all comes down to personal choice and what ur happy with..

steff............
Life with out a v-dub is no life at all!!!!!

psimitar Son of Jim - Creator of Good

2,506 posts · joined Jan 2009 ·

#937020
DubCrazy wrote:had both aircooled and subi powered baja's and both had plus points,

aircooled, simple easy but lacking power unless u spend a fair bit but they just keep going if looked after and if they do stuff up when out its normally a easy fix

subi, cheap power and reliability but many more "gizmos" to stuff up and u need computers to tune (im not a mechanic so every time i wanted it tune it had to goto a garage as i had no frigging idea even after i fitted a aftermarket microtech lt10 with hand controller)


neither let me down when offroading and the subi was a better set up and had power to waste but the aircooled did it all just not as quick, just ask smiley he managed to go everwhere i did with a standard 1600 while i had turbo power, i just did it quicker :P

if i was to build another baja i would go a worked aircooled engine purely for the ease of maintenance , im building a kombi right now and that will be subi for ease of highway cruzing and i want a/c 🙂

go with what ever u like the idea the best, so many arguments for and against for both engines it all comes down to personal choice and what ur happy with..

steff............
Yup ^^^^WHS. If you want a VW donk to go well then you'll have tp do the maths and see how much it stacks up to doing an EJ conversion. Subie OEM ECU just needs a OBD-II reader for any sensor faults that might occur and makes fault finding much easier. Tuning requires a daughterboard if you want to change ignition or fuelling tables. Thta can defo get expensive 🙂
madness is in the eye of the beholder 👍

bugzla Custom Title Time!

1,164 posts · joined Jun 2007 ·

#937031
thank you so much for your input guys loads of pluses and negatives ive been awaiting the rebirth of mickh's buggy on the road so i can experience it with a ej22 i have the wasser boxer here but ill have to send the block out to get the modifications done some where the motor was running when it was givin to me and when striped found it was rebuilt no so long ago just awaiting my mate back from the mines to give me some help with tuning my su suck through turbo setup on my aircooled and we can go from there

vlad01 Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber

4,270 posts · joined Jun 2010 ·

#937072
11CAB wrote:It's always funny the Subaru haters always say how easy their VW's are to fix on the side of the road, but the subaru's aren't breaking down to need to worry about it....
+100000000000

71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE

psimitar Son of Jim - Creator of Good

2,506 posts · joined Jan 2009 ·

#937094
coletrickle wrote:Only plus I can see in a subi is it's cheap other than that they have don't have a lot going for them.As an example what can you fix on the side of the road/ track?
Yep, subie's are completely untuneable. You can't get a 2.5l CDB with later twin cam heads and a good size urbo for a reliable 450bhp. And you can't source all this stuff from UK or USA and save heaps over Oz scrapyard prices. Neither can you either stick a daughter board on the ECU or install a Megasquirt for a completely tuneable ECU 🙂

Especially with the cost of HiPo VW parts in Oz I reckon you'd be spending about a third as much on a VW giving the same bhp as a EJ22 NA. As I said do the maths and see how ya go 🙂

Love to see a thread on the wasser engine build when ya get the block back. CB 82mm crank with chevy journals running 94 B&P's and JCM heads on top with 48IDA's and edis ignition 😀
madness is in the eye of the beholder 👍