Body out of alignment by 10mm to the left!

Lateral · 2013-03-13T21:20:14+00:00

Hi guys I am using my old motor for mock up to check that everything will fit for when I fit the new motor from Rod and have come across the following issue. I fitted the new Vintage Speed exhaust and I have clearance issues on the left hand side of behind the beaver panel....see the attached photo. I have elongated the flange holes but still have a problem. I took some measurements from the centre of the engine block to the inside edge of the engine bay where the engine seal sits and the left hand side is about 10mm narrower than the right hand side. I am thinking that the previous owner who did a complete body off restoration on the car wasn't too accurate with the tape measure 🙂 or perhaps this is normal for all 1967 type 1's. Whilst I can simply cut of the top of the muffler and weld in a small piece (I have already elongated the flange holes) I would like to know if there is a simple way to simply either: 1. Unbolt the body from the chassis and nudge it over to the left or, 2. loosen the gearbox a bit and nudge it over...I recently fitted new gearbox mounts Any other ideas would be welcome. Regards Greg

Lateral Wolfsburg Wizard

480 posts · joined Sep 2011 · 15 Mar 2013, 6:45 pm

#947733

Thanks Ian😵‍💫

matberry Moderator Go hard or go home

8,114 posts · joined Mar 2006 · 15 Mar 2013, 6:46 pm

#947734

Running boards are bolted to the body and won't be effected

Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE

Lateral Wolfsburg Wizard

480 posts · joined Sep 2011 · 15 Mar 2013, 6:47 pm

#947735

Oh yeah! Your right!

vwo60 Veteran Volks Folk

2,036 posts · joined Feb 2007 · 15 Mar 2013, 6:48 pm

#947736

All depends on how well you want the job to come out, you are the one that has to look at the work you have done and be happy with it, i would not cut the body or the muffler as you are treating the symptom not the cause of the problem, center the body and check the engine is central in the engine bay, this way you will not get a surprise when you fit the new engine, vw54 i have a 60 model beetle with a 36HP engine bay, it has a 2054 with 44IDF's and it all fits including closing the engine cover wiithout cutting anything, all i do is remove the tappet covers before i fit the engine to the car.

Lateral Wolfsburg Wizard

480 posts · joined Sep 2011 · 15 Mar 2013, 7:12 pm

#947749

Good point

Lateral Wolfsburg Wizard

480 posts · joined Sep 2011 · 17 Mar 2013, 7:59 am

#947902

Hi Guys

What "issues" am I likely to encounter should I choose to reposition the body?

ie: breaking the seal between the body and chassis will cause leaks?

Are there any things that I need to disconnect, unplug etc prior to unbolting the body or is it a simple matter of:

1. unbolt body,
2. raise body a few mm off the pan
3. move body to the left 10mm
4. lower the body
5. Rebolt the body to the pan.

Regards
Greg

HappyDaze Superannuated

2,887 posts · joined Jun 2009 · 17 Mar 2013, 8:56 am

#947905

If you know exactly how much it needs to needs to move, take an accurate measurement, then un-do the four M10 rear body bolts.

Ideally, a Porto-Power is used , if not available you may be able to push the body across using the good-old VW jack. Use a suitable diameter and length of pipe over the shaft of the jack, and push between the chassis and a 'hard point' on the body. When the measurement is 4-5 mm PAST the desired point, tighten the 4 bolts and release the jack. If not far enough, repeat the process, taking it further before tightening the 4 bolts.

Good luck.

Another Greg

I'd rather wear a Beetle out by racing it than by polishing it!

Lateral Wolfsburg Wizard

480 posts · joined Sep 2011 · 17 Mar 2013, 9:16 am

#947910

Thanks Greg!

Do you see a problem in using the distance between the top bolt of the shock towers as a reference point?

Also, I assume the the 4-5mm PAST the desired point is due to some "spring back"?

Also, are you refering to the 4 M10 bolts that are under the rear seat?

I would also think that I would need to loosen the bolts on the trailing arms as well?

Regards
Greg

HappyDaze Superannuated

2,887 posts · joined Jun 2009 · 17 Mar 2013, 9:43 am

#947913

Doesn't matter what you use for reference points, although if it is the engine bay that is 10mm out, then that's where you should be measuring. If it needs to move 10mm, then that's how far it has to go at the engine bay. The shock tower measurement may only change by 2-3mm?

I find a Plumb-bob is the best way to accurately measure these movements. Mark a 'X' on the floor down from a suitable point on the chassis, then another under another on the body [close to where it needs to move]. Alternatively, you could make a simple 'pointer', attached to the chassis, with the 'pointer' near the part of the body that needs to move.

May require some 'Lateral Thinking'.......had to get that one in.😂

I'd rather wear a Beetle out by racing it than by polishing it!

Lateral Wolfsburg Wizard

480 posts · joined Sep 2011 · 17 Mar 2013, 9:51 am

#947914

👍

vwo60 Veteran Volks Folk

2,036 posts · joined Feb 2007 · 17 Mar 2013, 10:04 am

#947916

Put your mock up engine block back into the car and use it as a center line to set the engine in the middle of the engine bay, if this is already on center then you might have a problem with the car being hit at one time, i would leave the two of the front bolts loose in place at the front of the car and break the seal, once the seal is broken you should be able to move the back end of the car by simply lifting it and gently moving to wear ever you require it to be, if you are concerned about leaking use a sealing compound between the body and the rubber before you put it back together.

Lateral Wolfsburg Wizard

480 posts · joined Sep 2011 · 17 Mar 2013, 10:12 am

#947917

Thanks mate.

Regards
Greg

Lateral Wolfsburg Wizard

480 posts · joined Sep 2011 · 4 Apr 2013, 3:45 pm

#950021

Update:

I decided to unbolt the body from the chassis hoping that it would simply be a matter of me gently pushing the body over the required amount......well, after 2 hours of pushing, jacking, nudging, swearing and levering not a single millimeter was moved!

I'm going to jack up the drivers side oft he car overnight and see if gravity over a number of hours might help.

.....and yes, I'm sure I've loosened every bolt 👍

If somebody doesn't come up with another idea and this doesn't work it's off to Westie to get the muffler modified.

Regards
Greg

Craig Torrens 6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion

8,040 posts · joined Jan 2003 · 4 Apr 2013, 3:53 pm

#950022

list down all the bolts you have undone and we can check if you have done them all !

Lateral Wolfsburg Wizard

480 posts · joined Sep 2011 · 4 Apr 2013, 4:49 pm

#950029

He of little faith!

Ok, I loosened quite a bit the following:

1. 18 (9 x 2) x underneath near the running boards
2. 4 (2 x 2) x underneath in front (Frame head)
3. 4 x inside car under rear seat
4. 2 (1 x 2) x near top of rear shock towers
5. 2 x under fuel tank

Total = 30

Regards
Greg

hellbugged 48's and straight cuts

5,080 posts · joined Apr 2003 · 4 Apr 2013, 7:57 pm

#950055

6 under the rear seat 😎

Check the front seat belt anchors don't tie in body and pan

I'm not so sure just loosening them will be enough either...... The heater channel bolts normally pierce the gasket when inserted, so at least those would need removing completely IMO

Craig Torrens 6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion

8,040 posts · joined Jan 2003 · 4 Apr 2013, 8:15 pm

#950057

Lateral wrote:He of little faith!

Ok, I loosened quite a bit the following:

1. 18 (9 x 2) x underneath near the running boards
2. 4 (2 x 2) x underneath in front (Frame head)
3. 4 x inside car under rear seat
4. 2 (1 x 2) x near top of rear shock towers
5. 2 x under fuel tank

Total = 30

Regards
Greg

What about the two under the rear seat that screw into the rear torsion housing ? They are located in the corners near where the top of the back seat (pivots) mounts to the sides. So total of 6 inside.

Lateral Wolfsburg Wizard

480 posts · joined Sep 2011 · 4 Apr 2013, 8:50 pm

#950064

Hi Craig

I just had another look and inside and can't see the 2 extra bolts you mentioned......remember that the car is a 1967 model.

Can you send me a photo?

Daimo, I'll check the seat belt bolts tomorrow. I removed a few of the heater channel bolts to see how much movement I would have and there seemed to be enough for me to be able to move the body and leave the bolts in.

Regards
Greg

hellbugged 48's and straight cuts

5,080 posts · joined Apr 2003 · 4 Apr 2013, 9:02 pm

#950065

You can see them just above the torsion bar caps from outside the car Greg

From inside the car they are right under the back edge of the rear seat, higher and further back from the other 4..... Adjacent to the hinge for the top half of the seat

Craig Torrens 6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion

8,040 posts · joined Jan 2003 · 4 Apr 2013, 10:17 pm

#950077

Greg, I have sent you a photo of the bolts in my 63 and 68 model.

1303Steve Scirocco Rare

8,650 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 5 Apr 2013, 8:01 am

#950093

Craig Torrens wrote:What about the two under the rear seat that screw into the rear torsion housing ? They are located in the corners near where the top of the back seat (pivots) mounts to the sides. So total of 6 inside.

Hi

A lot of cars from the factory never had bolts in that location.

Steve

matberry Moderator Go hard or go home

8,114 posts · joined Mar 2006 · 5 Apr 2013, 8:06 am

#950094

^^ don't know about that Steve, pre 60 (or there abouts) had 4 M10 (2 each side) and post had the two.

Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE

Lateral Wolfsburg Wizard

480 posts · joined Sep 2011 · 5 Apr 2013, 8:20 am

#950096

Hi guys

I had a look at Craig's photos and inside the car and guess what?

I found the 2 "rogue" frigging bolts!

Lucky I did as I was about to get the biggest baddest Porta Power possible!

Anyway, I'll loosen these and see what happens and let you all know the results.

Regards
Greg

Craig Torrens 6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion

8,040 posts · joined Jan 2003 · 5 Apr 2013, 8:26 am

#950097

1303Steve wrote:
Craig Torrens wrote:What about the two under the rear seat that screw into the rear torsion housing ? They are located in the corners near where the top of the back seat (pivots) mounts to the sides. So total of 6 inside.
Hi

A lot of cars from the factory never had bolts in that location.

Steve

Hi Steve, I think you will find only late models didn't have them ie 74,75,76.

1303Steve Scirocco Rare

8,650 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 5 Apr 2013, 8:45 am

#950100

Hi

Sorry I forgot we were talking about biblical cars here, correction, my 72 & 73 bugs never had them, not sure about earlier cars, I always fit them to my own cars, the hole usually has a bit of tape over it.

Steve

matberry Moderator Go hard or go home

8,114 posts · joined Mar 2006 · 5 Apr 2013, 9:05 am

#950105

Ahh, your talking about that foam filled rubbish that we don't even consider to be beetles, more like a poor Indian copy........ 😂

Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE

1303Steve Scirocco Rare

8,650 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 5 Apr 2013, 9:12 am

#950106

Yeh the ones that have all the good parts to make your old stuff seem a little modern

Lateral Wolfsburg Wizard

480 posts · joined Sep 2011 · 5 Apr 2013, 9:57 am

#950113

Update!

I totally removed the extra bolts and it looks as though there is not really any room in the holes so they will need to be "elongated" if I can moved the body.

I also found that the drivers side seat belt bracket was hitting the body so I removed it.

I then lifted all of the glued down carpet.

I then pushed, shoved and levered to no avail.

I have not yet totally removed any of the other bolts and would prefer not to if I don't need to but I am thinking that I may need to.

What are the best locations to use as "leverage" points?

Regards
Greg

hellbugged 48's and straight cuts

5,080 posts · joined Apr 2003 · 5 Apr 2013, 11:04 am

#950127

Lever under the corners...start at the rear

If I mention the sledge again will it be taken in jest this time round 😘

1303Steve Scirocco Rare

8,650 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 5 Apr 2013, 11:25 am

#950132

Hi

Would it help if you put a big bit of wood across the rear of the car, about under the bumper bracket and lift the body with a jack and then try moving the body

Steve