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Steves 1303 buildup, found lots of kilowatts

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hellbugged 48's and straight cuts

5,080 posts · joined Apr 2003 ·

#966641
Jeff works out in his head the % increase of stiffness with increasing bar diameter.... It's pretty cool to witness (60th birthday slipped past yesterday)🤪

Ben Durie commented last time watching the notch, that it was dropping too low.... Surprised that it already had 29mm

1303Steve Scirocco Rare

8,650 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#966676
Hi

The 26 mm bars really let rear end drop under power, 28 mm bars are the next step I guess.

Below is a chart I found somewhere on the net, I'm not sure how accurate it is.

I wished Onion a happy birthday the other day but I was too early.

Steve

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1303Steve Scirocco Rare

8,650 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#966677
Pickpocket wrote:I'm curious how those bars will work also. I installed a set of 944 bars in mine and it feels awful stiff, but I don't have the engine or anything in it yet so hopefully that helps soften it up a bit. As is though, I can't even bounce on the rear of the car with my full weight (240lbs) and get the rear end to move.
What size 944 bars are you using? I have 23.5 in my sons bug, same as Type 3 wagon, they help but could be stiffer.

mactaylor Custom Title Time!

1,005 posts · joined Aug 2007 ·

#966743
hellbugged wrote:Jeff works out in his head the % increase of stiffness with increasing bar diameter.... It's pretty cool to witness (60th birthday slipped past yesterday)🤪

Ben Durie commented last time watching the notch, that it was dropping too low.... Surprised that it already had 29mm
Hi mate Whats the notch weigh
EVERLAST CONCRETE TANKS
1800 552 123

hellbugged 48's and straight cuts

5,080 posts · joined Apr 2003 ·

#966779
I have not seen the exact number, but it's not lightened at all really

If it's not the full ton it would be into the 900's at the very least

Heavy wheels, bracings, kombi box, radiators..... Not to mention the lump in the back

I'm imagining similar to steves bug with it's fiberglass components but full street trim

mactaylor Custom Title Time!

1,005 posts · joined Aug 2007 ·

#966815
Thanks mate. Steve if squatting is reducing your front end grip then bigger bars are the go, So prob needs 28mm short or 30mm long, Well thats my prediction if its gunna get punted hard. was watching some Khana cars today and it makes me happy that we have the best of both worlds with our humble little dubs!
EVERLAST CONCRETE TANKS
1800 552 123

1303Steve Scirocco Rare

8,650 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#966855
Hi

My car weighed in at 1080 kgs, it maybe slightly more now.

I'm stuck using short bars as put a gearbox where the long bars would normally sit.

I was getting some under steer at Wakefield, heavier rear bars should help with that.

Steve

mactaylor Custom Title Time!

1,005 posts · joined Aug 2007 ·

#966926
Maybe one of the hillclimb boys might chime in or maybe greg or paul zanello, these dudes have way to much experience, they prob hang out in the AC side of things to much! GIRLS!
EVERLAST CONCRETE TANKS
1800 552 123

PAZZAN Wolfsburg Wizard

592 posts · joined Jan 2008 ·

#966934
this will be hard ,nice road car or fast race car 😵‍💫

Jak Rizzo Insano Dub Head

837 posts · joined Apr 2004 ·

#967008
Found this Stevie!
I've emailed the owner to see where he got the body from, very cool!

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1303Steve Scirocco Rare

8,650 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#967014
Hi

Jak that's a cool RC car I would be interested to find out more about getting a shell like that one.

Paul my car is way to heavy to be a race car but the rear torsion bar strength is an issue, you can feel the rear squat down on the street, its like driving a boat the way the back sinks down and the front rises.

Steve

Camo Custom Title Time!

1,936 posts · joined Oct 2007 ·

#967016
Steve,

you gave us a little tease a week or so ago with one photo of your fat rear end, I personally would like to see more with the new paint job please.

Kev
I thought rebuilding a VW would be cheap - Shit I was wrong, just don't let the wife know !!!!

Click here for my (slowy) modded 1961 Beetle build.

Flintstones Custom Title Time!

1,077 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#967036
Steve, have you thought about using coilovers in the rear?

vlad01 Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber

4,270 posts · joined Jun 2010 ·

#967038
mactaylor wrote:
hellbugged wrote:Jeff works out in his head the % increase of stiffness with increasing bar diameter.... It's pretty cool to witness (60th birthday slipped past yesterday)🤪

Ben Durie commented last time watching the notch, that it was dropping too low.... Surprised that it already had 29mm
Hi mate Whats the notch weigh
stock notch weighs just over a metric ton. 1035kg to be exact for late early is rumored to be 980kg ? but I can't say that figure is right or not.

71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE

1303Steve Scirocco Rare

8,650 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#967039
Hi

I've been giving coil overs some thought but the issue that I have is the axle is very close to the shock body because I've moved everything forward so much.

Camo, missus is on the warpath so im doing what I'm told and not touching the car much, I've just been assembling doors etc

Steve

OZ Towdster Keen to finish some projects

1,921 posts · joined Dec 2003 ·

#967054
Ah it's all good Steve ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, we've all been there , and respect the golden rule of "happy wife happy life ".
Seriously though i would have thought that short bars would make the rear end fairly stiff , some of it is not just shockies is it ???

Andrew
Don't let body work get in the way of real suspension travel

Joel Now containing 100\% E-Wang

9,368 posts · joined Feb 2006 ·

#967063
vlad01 wrote:early is rumored to be 980kg ? but I can't say that figure is right or not.
880kg 😉

1303Steve Scirocco Rare

8,650 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#967064
OZ Towdster wrote:Ah it's all good Steve ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, we've all been there , and respect the golden rule of "happy wife happy life ".
Seriously though i would have thought that short bars would make the rear end fairly stiff , some of it is not just shockies is it ???

Andrew
Hi

I also thought short 26 bars would have been on the heavy side, I'm running 944 Konis, I've tried full hard and full soft, it still sinks under power.

You can see in these photos how it sags under power.

My dad is a twin, were having his 85th birthday this weekend and his sister and my cousins are staying at our place so all the jobs I've been putting off are being done whether I like it or not.

Its a funny story, my dads name is Jack and his sister is Jill, 85 year Jack & Jill

Steve

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ian.mezz I never said, I could write or spell

3,913 posts · joined Sep 2004 ·

#967123
🤪😂🤪
.

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😂🤪😂🤪😂
car forums. where a lot of peoples good intentions end up taking a good old car off the road forever never ever to see the road again. 🥲

vlad01 Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber

4,270 posts · joined Jun 2010 ·

#967124
Joel wrote:
vlad01 wrote:early is rumored to be 980kg ? but I can't say that figure is right or not.
880kg 😉

I seen other figures too including that one. Let me see what I find in my VW operator manuals.

seems vw ball parked a lot of figures with the type 3. Especially the EFI models, different vw literature sated different specs for some of the same stuff.

interesting how they state on your pic the weight with driver for the SB but without for the sedan?

EDIT.

got a wheels road test, fastback. doesn't state the year but judging by the colour and IRS rear its a late model, at least 69. some BS weight measurement cwt? anyway got 780 or 883kg.? sounds wrong either way

Then in my VW owner's manual its states unladen weight is 1010kg for fastback and 1035kg for square from 70 on.

69. models state 960kg across all body types.

67. 920kg for sedans, 950kg for square

65. 910kg for sedan, 1025kg for square.

ect etc...

I would take that the official owner manual would be the most accurate.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/type3.php

71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE

OZ Towdster Keen to finish some projects

1,921 posts · joined Dec 2003 ·

#967155
Yes but most VW based shockies are valved for bugger all dampning on compresion and are more active on the rebound , but with your car you probabley need both mabey ????
Don't let body work get in the way of real suspension travel

matberry Moderator Go hard or go home

8,114 posts · joined Mar 2006 ·

#967158
OZ Towdster wrote:Yes but most VW based shockies are valved for bugger all dampning on compresion and are more active on the rebound , but with your car you probabley need both mabey ????
Not just VW shocks but all shocks are valved this way to decrease the impact of bumps into the car (except maybe some offroad racing shocks). Shocks are a dampening device and will not effect the squat your experiencing Steve, only the springs/torsions will change it (or radical suspension design/geometery mods)
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE

1303Steve Scirocco Rare

8,650 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#967178
Hi

This is a crappy photo that shows how close the axle comes to the shock body.

LA Performance in the UK do a coil over shock that might work, he can make them to any specifications so I'm sure 944 would be no trouble.

The 944 rear shocks are very similar to IRS Beetle ones but use a larger M14 bottom bolt.

968 Porsches with the M30 option use a coil over helper spring, but a pair of shocks is $650 Us plus shipping without coils and top mount

Nice chatting to you tonight Damo and thanks for the info.

Steve

ps thanks for all the input guys

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matberry Moderator Go hard or go home

8,114 posts · joined Mar 2006 ·

#967180
My 2c is just go bigger bars, I ran 30mm shorts on stock IRS arms in my old baja in the 80's (ie no body work and air cooled), IMO 28 is still too small with all that weight out the rear.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE

lou0060 Wolfsburg Wizard

568 posts · joined Dec 2010 ·

#967183
Ian's car looks as if it's about to wheel stand!

Steve, I get hardly any squat on mine even under full boost. I am running short 30mm and also a pretty heavy Whiteline rear sway bar which holds it all very tight. Ok for a track car but finding a balance for road use will be a difficult task. At least you have a short sump, I'm still running the stock sump. And if you find that RC body, I'll have one too, it's cool!
1971 karmann ghia Cabrio - Cruising 👍
1963 beetle Sunroof - gathering dust 🥲
1968 race beetle - twin turbo Subaru - stress relief 😁
1960 beetle - old school low & slow 😏

Craig Torrens 6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion

8,040 posts · joined Jan 2003 ·

#967196
A good option is to fit the largest bars first.....then "turn them down" on a lathe if the spring rate needs to be altered. Its easy to remove material, but you can't add to a torsion bar 👍😉


Pickpocket Casual Dubber

33 posts · joined Jan 2010 ·

#967311
1303Steve wrote:
Pickpocket wrote:I'm curious how those bars will work also. I installed a set of 944 bars in mine and it feels awful stiff, but I don't have the engine or anything in it yet so hopefully that helps soften it up a bit. As is though, I can't even bounce on the rear of the car with my full weight (240lbs) and get the rear end to move.
What size 944 bars are you using? I have 23.5 in my sons bug, same as Type 3 wagon, they help but could be stiffer.
I didn't measure them before I put them in. I just know they're the stock bars that would go into my old '87 944 (N/A, not turbo).

1303Steve Scirocco Rare

8,650 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#967323
Hi

They should be 23.5, that's base size for standard type 944s. Its the same size as Type 3 wagon bars which are a factory upgrade over standard IRS Beetle bars.

Steve