What oil should I use?

*did* · 2003-09-10T08:08:59+00:00

Just bought myself a 1970 Beetle with a '73 1600 in it last week. Decided I better change the oil. I have read alot about what oil to use but am still unsure. In John Muir's book he talks about detergent and non-detergent oils. How do I know whether my current oil is detergent or non-det? In regard to grade: I talked to Volkspower and they say to use 25W-60. What recommendations do you have? Thanks 🙂 [Edited on 10-9-2003 by *did*]

Tazz Old Skool

1,315 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 9 Oct 2003, 9:27 pm

#97466

Oh man........

I think Both of you are getting away from the subject in hand.

We all know Oils 'aint Oils......

Tazz.

1962 Type3 Squareback
1967 Type3 Fastback "Kermit"

The truth is important. It will set you free

Adam_C Custom Title Time!

1,180 posts · joined May 2003 · 9 Oct 2003, 10:38 pm

#97510

LOL ahh lawsie . . . . . johnny boy . . . . i think he may have a VW or two in his multimillion dollar collection of vehicles . . . . dunno tho

Adam
Adzslick@iprimus.com.au

Craig Torrens 6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion

8,040 posts · joined Jan 2003 · 9 Oct 2003, 11:04 pm

#97519

1916cc are better because............... ooops wrong post😀😀

Pack your CV's with magarine

lube your wheels with Vicks vapour rub

and go get a B Pharm degree to work on your engines !!!!!

😉 Sorry too many bourbons😀

KruizinKombi Seriously Obsessed Cyber Dubber

3,493 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 10 Oct 2003, 12:44 am

#97549

tassupervee; I've just read this thread from start to finish. I know you're new here, and I've known Wes since meeting him nearly two years ago. Nevertheless, I'll try to be as unbiased as I can.

First of all, I've never known Wes to publish info that is incorrect. He has done some amazing research in the past and is well-respected because people know that he researches things so thoroughly. I don't know you, but if you race then I'm assuming that you must have some knowledge. I just don't understand the point you are trying to make.

If you can prove Wes wrong, then I'd like to see it. For that matter, so would a lot of other people 😉 but you're going to have to explain yourself a lot better than you have so far.

Looking at how aparently "Runny" a particular oil is at say, engine temp,,,,oh I dont know say 90 Deg.C is just irrelevent.

I would argue that viscosity is most important at the temperature the oil is designed to run at. ie. Viscosity at engine temperature of an engine oil would be majorly important. That is after all, its intended operating conditions.

Guys dont get too bent out of shape about the apparent thickness (or thinness) of an oil based on the advertised "weight"

I was under the impression that the "advertised weight" was SAE-tested and therefore correct under consistent testing conditions. Of course, Wes has already said that. I just don't see what your argument is.

What I do see is that you have come here to have a debate. Unfortunately you don't appear to be winning your chosen argument, so you start blowing smoke like:

Aparrent thickness or thinness of a fluid is variable depending on its temp. Chill zero weight oil down to its pour point and it resembles grease but it is still zero weight oil yeah?

Excuse my sarcasm for a moment, but that is kinda obvious. Which is exactly why SAE tests are carried out under set conditions, so the viscosity is being tested without temperature variables from one oil to the next. One variable at a time. That is a basic principle of science that any high-school science student should be aware of, yet you 'seem' to have missed it.

I must re-iterate that I'm not having a go at you, just calling it how I see it. You are welcome to explain your case more clearly. Are you sure you are comparing apples to apples? It seems to me that Wes's chart did back up your statement that "Catlex RPM Delo 200 straight 40W engine oil has the same viscosity at operating temperature as 80-90w gear oil."

What I don't understand is why you insist that we should not "be fooled by what is printed on the label." This is what Wes was referring to as "false advertising". You alleged it, he just used a more succinct term. I'm surprised you didn't work that out yourself. You are comparing engine oil to gear oil, which are two different grading systems. I'm surprised you didn't work that out too.

So far what I'm seeing is a case of miscommunication. tassupervee, I think you need to spend as much time reading posts as you do into writing them. You appear to have totally missed Wes's point every time. I don't blame you for wanting to defend your original statements, but you seem to be flogging a dead horse.

The part I didn't like was "those of you that dont like it have the ultimate form of censorship.....click and goodbye to you!" I'm sorry, but there a lot of people who have been here a long time. I can't see how you could possibly justify saying that in your fifth post on this forum. It reminds me very much of the people who used to screw up the chat room I used to frequent and tell everyone that if they didn't like it, they were allowed to leave. People do have that right, but I can't see that you have the right to stir up trouble and suggest long-term members leave.

As I said at the start, I have been as unbiased as possible, and said it as I see it. Please read all the posts again very carefully before posting a response. That way hopefully we can end this here, it IS getting boring.

Kruizin Kol

Baja Wes V6 Baja Pioneer

3,119 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 10 Oct 2003, 8:03 am

#97598

I know most people here like to stir me, that's fine. I also know they listen to what I have to say.

I am not trying to out-do anyone, or prove how big mine is.

I frequent these forums and try to ensure the information posted is as correct as possible. I know what you have posted is at the least misleading in some parts, so I have merely correct you. That is all I did in my first reply to you, you have made the issue out of it.

People come to this post to figure out what oil to run. They do not need to be confused by people telling them that the information on the label is not correct. It is correct and in virtually every case is independantly tested. Enough said.

I'm not going to respond to any other posts, all the info is already there for people to read.

Wes - www.offroadvw.net - 200HP Quad Cam V6 in a VW Baja - with climate control... 🙂
www.taylorcycles.com.au - My DH MTB racing brothers shop.

tassupervee That really hurts doesnt it!

1,171 posts · joined Sep 2003 · 10 Oct 2003, 9:32 am

#97623

Some interesting replies here. Some well thought out.
I am saying tho that some of you are not "seeing the wood for the trees"
I am tiring of explaining myself and plain and simple english is just not working here as well as I might have hoped.

As far as knowing anything about lubricants. Well, I am an Aircraft Maintenance Engineer (Qantas) by trade, I am also a qualified (licensed) motor mechanic where most of my time was spent engineering rotor powered rally cars and after a couple of years of driving fuel tankers for a large metropolitan oil distributor, I operated as a lube oils representative. I have perhaps at least a rudimentary working knowlege of lube oils based on actual experience and not on just what I read on the 'net.

Actually now come to think of it, I am a "Proffessional Race Car Driver" LMAO (ie: semi-retired)😎

As far as misleasding packaging is concerned, Synthetics. Are you getting a true synthetic oil just because the package says so? Do some research and enlighten yourselves. I have suggested this in a previous post. Did you do your research? Of course not.

I will say that dont judge the performance (or whateve properties gives you a stiffy) of a lube oil on its physical appearance at different temps.

What appears at a glance thick and gluggy may not be best for a rattly engine and what at first glance appears runny and watery may be the better (dare I say this: thicker) option.

This is/was the core of my original post but some of you dudes seem incapable, or unwilling to interpret it any other way and judgements are being further clouded by my limited number of post in this particular forum as backed up by the number of references to, and somewhat disparaging comments made against me.

Then I am accused of stirring up the forum?????????? Ayyyy? (look of outrage)!
Would it have made a difference if I had hacked the forum code and altered my post count to around a thousand or so?
This is a mighty easy thing to achieve BTY.

However, keep the comments coming thick and fast (no pun) as I am enjoying it!

L8tr dudes
E

Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....

Peter Leonard Moderator Volatile

1,456 posts · joined Apr 2003 · 10 Oct 2003, 3:02 pm

#97717

Baja Wes wrote:
Peter Leonard wrote:....canola, or baby oil, if you have the cash, extra virgin farmland brand will do nicely. ...
You don't pack your CV joints with KY jelly by any chance do you?

people with selective postal memories please note the actual complete quote:

"jap motors should use at minimum canola, or baby oil, if you have the cash, extra virgin farmland brand will do nicely."

yes i use ky in my CV's, i lerned vat one from mah pappy.

under no circumcises should you use 'dencorub' brand lube on your rod. it will run hot.

thanks craig for the heads up re vicks vapor rub, but why don't you go and shove that phony B. Pharm degree back on your fridge. I don't care how many years you studied to learn stuff, AND things; i worked at a chemist once, for quite a few weeks, as a delivery boy. what REAL world experience do YOU have, huh?

now back to it... 1916cc's is the best because they have reallly thin walls, so you can seee the motor spinning and they get cooler cos of the thin walls and stuff.

Peter Leonard Moderator Volatile

1,456 posts · joined Apr 2003 · 10 Oct 2003, 3:05 pm

#97718

AND i don't have a jap motor in my bug. so i don't use baby oil for THAT!

:o
I use it with a special lipid suspender in the form of armorall, on my dash, bumpers, wheels and trim. and in wrestling.

let sleeping dubs lie

68AutoBug Beetle Restorer - Experience over 138\% - YIKES --

11,654 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 10 Oct 2003, 5:00 pm

#97754

We ALL know that synthetic based oil leaks much worse than normal (!!) mineral oil... in a VW Engine..
I'm sticking to GT2 in My Beetle engine.... and if I run out I can use 80w90 gear oil because the viscosity is the same..!!! NEVER !!

also it makes NO difference whether someone is new to the forum of Not....
Do You mean if Larry Perkins just joined the Forum...
" err Sorry, Larry as You have just joined the Forum, You must know nothing at all about Volkswagens"
You may have rallied them and built up rally engines but Sorry old man, You have just joined the forum... It would have be a different thing if You had joined last year or the year before!!...

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- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---

68AutoBug Beetle Restorer - Experience over 138\% - YIKES --

11,654 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 10 Oct 2003, 5:07 pm

#97757

If the package says "Synthetic Oil" why in the world wouldn't it be.... Castrol & shell don't tell lies.... Dick Johnson doesn't tell lies either... so "Synthetic oils ain't synthetic coils " I read every label and I believe what I read.... After a lot of reading and talking to other forum members... I believe I have picked the correct oil for My VW engine & gearbox..

Man.. this is getting too complicated for Me .. I'm outta here.....
Lee

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- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---

tassupervee That really hurts doesnt it!

1,171 posts · joined Sep 2003 · 10 Oct 2003, 5:54 pm

#97776

Like I said, do your research and you could be surprised at what you find.
The package says "Synthetic" due to a curious legal loophole in legislation regarding what appeasrs on packaging.

Oh yes, the package contains synthetic compounds but you often dont get "Fully Synthetic" .Many of the other "syntheitcs" are not true PAO (Polyalphaolefin) synthetcs (ie: Castrol Syntec, Penzoil, etc...) they are hydroisomerized petroleum oil or an ester based synthetic blend.

A different story from the likes of some boutique suppliers such as Amsoil for one.

Be wary.
L8tr
E

Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....

RISKY^VW Wolfsburg Wizard

403 posts · joined Mar 2003 · 10 Oct 2003, 9:18 pm

#97887

my aircooled lawn mower uses a 30 flat oil
would the same be useable in a vw ?? i know air cooled and water cooled 2 stroke motor use different oil
my buggy sounds like a lawn mower :p
sorry i dont know much about vw motors
🙁

www.austech.info/forums
The best tech forum around

oh sgetty will you respect me in the morning

things could be worse you could live in kentucky

tassupervee That really hurts doesnt it!

1,171 posts · joined Sep 2003 · 11 Oct 2003, 8:35 am

#97996

Hehehehehe you dont need to know too much about krauts! If they run at all then its all good yeah!😀

Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....

tassupervee That really hurts doesnt it!

1,171 posts · joined Sep 2003 · 11 Oct 2003, 8:44 am

#98000

Dudes
I could not pass this!
I missed it at first due to....oh I dont know I just missed it anyway!

also it makes NO difference whether someone is new to the forum of Not....

And then this in the same paragraph!

but Sorry old man, You have just joined the forum... It would have be a different thing if You had joined last year or the year before!!...

LMAO, sounds like a difference to me!
I love this stuff!:vader

Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....

KruizinKombi Seriously Obsessed Cyber Dubber

3,493 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 11 Oct 2003, 6:24 pm

#98120

I was not implying that your number of posts or amount of time spent on the forum makes any difference to or your rights here.....

On the other hand, getting to know people and their little quirks is helpful in avoiding misunderstandings. 🙂

Kruizin Kol

tassupervee That really hurts doesnt it!

1,171 posts · joined Sep 2003 · 12 Oct 2003, 7:27 pm

#98359

Hehehehe thats cool dude but you can see I have been dodging a few bullets!

I try to be as concise as I can but this often leads to long posts and regularly the original intention of a longer post can become errrr.....clouded and.....well...... you know the drill!

Happy Krauting!
E

Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....

Baja Wes V6 Baja Pioneer

3,119 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 12 Oct 2003, 8:24 pm

#98395

Hopefully one day we can all learn to live together in peace and harmony :thumb

I was never trying to cause trouble, I just thought some of your post was misleading and needed some clarification.

It looks like you do have a wealth of experience, and I hope you hang about to share it with us. Just remember, some of us have a lot of experience and very technical backgrounds too. 🙂

Wes - www.offroadvw.net - 200HP Quad Cam V6 in a VW Baja - with climate control... 🙂
www.taylorcycles.com.au - My DH MTB racing brothers shop.

his@hervw Casual Dubber

49 posts · joined Apr 2003 · 12 Oct 2003, 8:32 pm

#98401

God look how many posts Ive put forward, hey I thought this was a really Brill web site,,,,UNTIL,,,,,Now..Why isn't the bloody world run by women, at least they don't have to run around proving to themselves they have the biggest exaust pipe and then showing papers to prove it.
Lets get on with helping each other,,,, and yes,,,,sorry guys I have a really huge Pipe. Steve:bounce

Never Rushed