sander288 "Bolt-on Master"
1,404 posts · joined Aug 2008 ·
personally I love what you've done, been looking at something like this for ages, just never had the money..
LATEST EFI PROJECT
sander288 "Bolt-on Master"
1,404 posts · joined Aug 2008 ·
found this UK kit, just costs alot.. that said all the R&D is done
http://www.volksworld.com/news/latest/149309/vw-fuel-injection-kit.html
http://www.volksworld.com/news/latest/149309/vw-fuel-injection-kit.html
56astro Custom Title Time!
1,772 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·
Thanks Sander
(Coffs eh? I start work in Coffs from 24th Sept)
(Coffs eh? I start work in Coffs from 24th Sept)
VW car, VW engine ...... keepin it "real"
35MPG on 101.3kPa
56astro Custom Title Time!
1,772 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·
Hope this link works ..................
VW car, VW engine ...... keepin it "real"
35MPG on 101.3kPa
Craig Torrens 6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion
8,040 posts · joined Jan 2003 ·
Steve, when you say "redline is set" I'm assuming you mean the rev limit/cut off of the computer? If so I think you are missing my point.................your redline is set 1000rpm below the specs of the motor......so you should be showing the difference between 5200 and 6200 on your gear calculator (rev drop) not from 5500 to 5000.56astro wrote:🙅Craig Torrens wrote:and when you change gears (at 5200) the rev drop will then take you to below where the cam is efficient...............not very sensible for a daily driver.
Cam comes on about 2200 according to the building, and that is what I have experienced prior to the twin plugs.
The difference in revs between changing at 5000 or 5500 is:
272 for 1st to 2nd
306 for 2nd to 3rd
326 for 3rd to 4th
The revs at the next gear for a 5000 gear change is:
2724
3058
3253
all after the cam has come-on.
IT IS NO BIGGY!!
Also the 37/68 cam "comes on" at 3500rpm not 2200rpm (as per builders specs), so with EVERY one of your gear changes you are 300 to 800rpm below where it actually starts to work effectively.
The 2200rpm refers to the "crash point" of the cam, which is the lowest point where it will accept "full throttle" on an engine dyno test.
Glad you're happy and the car is back on the road, but you are not matching your fuel delivery system with your engine specs.
56astro Custom Title Time!
1,772 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·
It never went to 6200, even after the bigger fuel line was put in.
And 99% of the gear changes were no where near that anyway.
Stock beetle gearing puts the 1st-2nd gear change below 3500, so if what you're saying is correct, the cam is not 100% suited to the stock gearing.
Again, what combo??
And 99% of the gear changes were no where near that anyway.
Stock beetle gearing puts the 1st-2nd gear change below 3500, so if what you're saying is correct, the cam is not 100% suited to the stock gearing.
Again, what combo??
VW car, VW engine ...... keepin it "real"
35MPG on 101.3kPa
56astro Custom Title Time!
1,772 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·
Well, what combo??56astro wrote:What combo?Craig Torrens wrote:Steve peak power for that combo is produced at 5500rpm with REDLINE at 6200rpm.....
VW car, VW engine ...... keepin it "real"
35MPG on 101.3kPa
Craig Torrens 6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion
8,040 posts · joined Jan 2003 ·
base pobjoy 1916 with twin plugs...........37/68 cam, standard 040 heads, 94mm PB, balanced standard crank blah blah...............the same motor that he built for you years ago, unless you've changed it.
Every other base has no probs running to 6200rpm.
Steve, I just want you to get the best out of your motor but it seems there is really no point me trying to give you advice.......good luck with it.😎
Every other base has no probs running to 6200rpm.
Steve, I just want you to get the best out of your motor but it seems there is really no point me trying to give you advice.......good luck with it.😎
hellbugged 48's and straight cuts
5,080 posts · joined Apr 2003 ·
i'm sure you know i'm not being critical or difficult Steve............i admire the install and someone chasing exactly what they are after for THEIR car be it the easiest, cheapest, best blah.......that's certainly what i did too.
there are plenty of other factors that might be retarding the dyno figure........maybe it's the dyno itself as stated, there is plenty of gain from different exhaust styles/sizes what maybe 10HP!........hell even the muffler might be holding it back by a few.........who knows maybe the engine is wanting a bigger system now. some more specs on the engine would help to see wether it's a good figure or not.........BUT
..that's not the issue, i'm very interested to see how quiet it is, the difference in fuel economy and general drivability of it........can't wait to hear what YOU find, after all you will be the only one able to let us know the differences.
well done!!
happy with the way the boys went about it down there?
there are plenty of other factors that might be retarding the dyno figure........maybe it's the dyno itself as stated, there is plenty of gain from different exhaust styles/sizes what maybe 10HP!........hell even the muffler might be holding it back by a few.........who knows maybe the engine is wanting a bigger system now. some more specs on the engine would help to see wether it's a good figure or not.........BUT
..that's not the issue, i'm very interested to see how quiet it is, the difference in fuel economy and general drivability of it........can't wait to hear what YOU find, after all you will be the only one able to let us know the differences.
well done!!
happy with the way the boys went about it down there?
Judsons4eva Officially Full-On Dubber
270 posts · joined Oct 2004 ·
I am an infrequent poster on this forum but I do look at it every week or so, the tech threads being the most interesting to me. I have been in the professional engine R&D business for over 30 years. However in many cases practical/hands on experience leaves the the theory for dead.
What amazes me is that most the tech threads ends up in a pissing contest.
Steve I admire what you have achieved, having done my own EFI in the back shed it is a real sense of achievement getting it all together after understanding in a hands on way - pulse width, TPS, TB, trigger wheels, etc, etc and then firing up the beast!
Don't take the various comments as criticism - just more constructive comments.
Keep on tweaking and good job.
Ken
What amazes me is that most the tech threads ends up in a pissing contest.
Steve I admire what you have achieved, having done my own EFI in the back shed it is a real sense of achievement getting it all together after understanding in a hands on way - pulse width, TPS, TB, trigger wheels, etc, etc and then firing up the beast!
Don't take the various comments as criticism - just more constructive comments.
Keep on tweaking and good job.
Ken
550 Porsche Spyder
56 Oval mit Judson
96 Porsche 993 C2
56 Oval mit Judson
96 Porsche 993 C2
Mick058 Custom Title Time!
1,580 posts · joined Jan 2008 ·
Well said Ken - and steve, really well done, i think its a tops effort.
Im not trying to be difficult but my base pobjoy with twin plugs revs to 6200rpm with no problems, and it stops to push after 5500rpm. My exhaust set-up is one of classic veedubs stainless steel numbers.
Hope this helps.
Cheers Mick.
Im not trying to be difficult but my base pobjoy with twin plugs revs to 6200rpm with no problems, and it stops to push after 5500rpm. My exhaust set-up is one of classic veedubs stainless steel numbers.
Hope this helps.
Cheers Mick.
56astro Custom Title Time!
1,772 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·
Craig,
the 'combo' you speak of had twin kadrons, correct?
If so, you may not have realised yet BUT THEY HAVE GONE! The intake system is completely different, so it is a different 'combo'. With other changes more than 6200 is possible, but that would also be a different 'combo'. 🤪
Ken, you're right.
I'm listening to the constructive stuff, sometimes even quoting it.
What is frustrating is when some people can't get their head around the fact that what works for some, don't work for everyone.
This engine/EFI conversion has ticked all the boxes for MY NEEDS. The previous set-up didn't, but it wasn't a bad set-up by any means.
I concede that there are COMPROMISES, but what you miss out on the ferris wheel you pick up on the merry-go-round (so to speak). As DB said above, torque down low has probably increased, where it counts. Even the intake system on my family Dunnydore is a compromise. If I wanted to take it to the track every month I'd probably put ITBs on it, but why would I want to when it's a daily driver.
As I've said before, there are most likely inefficiencies in the intake system (the runner ends came off a 1600). But this system fulfils other needs/functions/intentions blah blah blah of MINE. Not anyone else's. I determined it would be easier to use them and join where they finish rather than have someone design and make completely new ones. I'm not stopping or discouraging anyone else from doing it though.
So I'm not sure why people are so intent on 'rubbishing' this, or defending the old carbed engine.
If you have a similar engine and want more peak HP (but maybe less torque down where it counts for a daily driver) don't do what I did. Put quad TBs on it and put up with the noise and drone for over 2 hours a day.
Not me. 🤪
Daimo,
The boys down there were extremely helpful. While Brendan tuned, Graeme explained what he was doing with timing and fuel etc.
the 'combo' you speak of had twin kadrons, correct?
If so, you may not have realised yet BUT THEY HAVE GONE! The intake system is completely different, so it is a different 'combo'. With other changes more than 6200 is possible, but that would also be a different 'combo'. 🤪
Ken, you're right.
I'm listening to the constructive stuff, sometimes even quoting it.
What is frustrating is when some people can't get their head around the fact that what works for some, don't work for everyone.
This engine/EFI conversion has ticked all the boxes for MY NEEDS. The previous set-up didn't, but it wasn't a bad set-up by any means.
I concede that there are COMPROMISES, but what you miss out on the ferris wheel you pick up on the merry-go-round (so to speak). As DB said above, torque down low has probably increased, where it counts. Even the intake system on my family Dunnydore is a compromise. If I wanted to take it to the track every month I'd probably put ITBs on it, but why would I want to when it's a daily driver.
As I've said before, there are most likely inefficiencies in the intake system (the runner ends came off a 1600). But this system fulfils other needs/functions/intentions blah blah blah of MINE. Not anyone else's. I determined it would be easier to use them and join where they finish rather than have someone design and make completely new ones. I'm not stopping or discouraging anyone else from doing it though.
So I'm not sure why people are so intent on 'rubbishing' this, or defending the old carbed engine.
If you have a similar engine and want more peak HP (but maybe less torque down where it counts for a daily driver) don't do what I did. Put quad TBs on it and put up with the noise and drone for over 2 hours a day.
Not me. 🤪
Daimo,
The boys down there were extremely helpful. While Brendan tuned, Graeme explained what he was doing with timing and fuel etc.
VW car, VW engine ...... keepin it "real"
35MPG on 101.3kPa
StenGuns Veteran Volks Folk
2,147 posts · joined Mar 2004 ·
Hats off to you mate.. Even though I didn't get my hands dirty on the EFI for my vehicle (I am TTT deficient - Time, Tools, Talent) I fully understand the tweaking, tinkering and decision making you go through to get WHAT YOU WANT.. My 1916 is going to deliver hopefully, a beautiful balanced, torquey output. The last piece in the jigsaw was the exhaust setup and that will be finalised next week. Westside fabricate a sweet looking twin setup that is going to still give me the twin pipe "stock" look.
All the best.. Rob
All the best.. Rob
56astro Custom Title Time!
1,772 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·
Thanks Rob.
Your engine bay looks so .............. plain (in a nice way).
Looking forward to seeing it full of wiring and hoses 👍
Your engine bay looks so .............. plain (in a nice way).
Looking forward to seeing it full of wiring and hoses 👍
VW car, VW engine ...... keepin it "real"
35MPG on 101.3kPa
StenGuns Veteran Volks Folk
2,147 posts · joined Mar 2004 ·
You won't be seeing any of those mate.. The coil (Golf 4) is tucked behind the shroud and the leads are all from the back.. No dizzy (trigger wheel like yours).. The only hose will be a bradied line from the breather on the neck down through the tinware..
Its not PLAIN! I'm a minimalist!!
Its not PLAIN! I'm a minimalist!!
56astro wrote:Thanks Rob.
Your engine bay looks so .............. plain (in a nice way).
Looking forward to seeing it full of wiring and hoses 👍
Mick058 Custom Title Time!
1,580 posts · joined Jan 2008 ·
Hey Steve, My reply was in regards to this...i assume 'it never' referred to the old combo you had, that is carbies etc...56astro wrote:It never went to 6200, even after the bigger fuel line was put in.
And 99% of the gear changes were no where near that anyway.
Stock beetle gearing puts the 1st-2nd gear change below 3500, so if what you're saying is correct, the cam is not 100% suited to the stock gearing.
Again, what combo??
My concern was that maybe something was off to cause the lower rpm, which may be effecting your current engine combo. Maybe its just a high end thing, in which its of no big deal to you as your after a torque increase, but then it could still effect lower end. iunno, im a novice - just letting you know that on carbies mine hits 6200 no problems.
I'll leave it at that, i wont mention RPM anymore!! 😂
Look forward to seeing it and especially hearing it, or not hearing it should i say.
56astro Custom Title Time!
1,772 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·
Nah Mick, it's all sweet.
Your exhaust looks like a merged or semi-merged one (nice by the way). You're also running 44 IDFs aren't you?
Mine is a (un)merged thunderbird(?) so there would be restriction and losses there.
The quietness I referred to is from within the car, no more annoying induction noise.
Your exhaust looks like a merged or semi-merged one (nice by the way). You're also running 44 IDFs aren't you?
Mine is a (un)merged thunderbird(?) so there would be restriction and losses there.
The quietness I referred to is from within the car, no more annoying induction noise.
VW car, VW engine ...... keepin it "real"
35MPG on 101.3kPa
56astro Custom Title Time!
1,772 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·
Rob
I realised after I posted that you already had yours running. So your engine bay is really neat, well done 👍
I realised after I posted that you already had yours running. So your engine bay is really neat, well done 👍
VW car, VW engine ...... keepin it "real"
35MPG on 101.3kPa
Mick058 Custom Title Time!
1,580 posts · joined Jan 2008 ·
yeh the webers are loud! I had them before the engine otherwise i would of used the kadrons, as they are better on the base.
i'd liked to go to the steriods in a couple of years and EFI that - shame Stan never did much with the EFI...o well time will tell.
Thanks for your build, will make a good reference point.
i'd liked to go to the steriods in a couple of years and EFI that - shame Stan never did much with the EFI...o well time will tell.
Thanks for your build, will make a good reference point.
westi what the
1,610 posts · joined Aug 2005 ·
sounds good.
how long before your fist cruz.or have you been there done that already.
how did you go with the tb ,did it work out ok or did it get the arse.
hopefully all is well and we will see some more photage of it in action soon.
how long before your fist cruz.or have you been there done that already.
how did you go with the tb ,did it work out ok or did it get the arse.
hopefully all is well and we will see some more photage of it in action soon.
down sharon.
56astro Custom Title Time!
1,772 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·
Hey Brad,
Pick it up Monday and take it to the engineer - NRMA (ctp) - RTA.
Not sure with the cold start stuff, they were supposed to be doing that today. They said they'd like it back in a month or so to go over the maps.
I have put together a compilation of the footage but some of the sections come out as stills. I'll work on it, get some more, and post it up.
Thanks for your help and assistance. Without people such as yourself this thing would never have gotten off the ground (some people wished it had never gotten off the ground 😏)
As we say in the job, see ya at the big one!
Pick it up Monday and take it to the engineer - NRMA (ctp) - RTA.
Not sure with the cold start stuff, they were supposed to be doing that today. They said they'd like it back in a month or so to go over the maps.
I have put together a compilation of the footage but some of the sections come out as stills. I'll work on it, get some more, and post it up.
Thanks for your help and assistance. Without people such as yourself this thing would never have gotten off the ground (some people wished it had never gotten off the ground 😏)
As we say in the job, see ya at the big one!
VW car, VW engine ...... keepin it "real"
35MPG on 101.3kPa
1303Steve Scirocco Rare
8,650 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·
Hi
Bet you cant wait to drive it. I remember when I first went from IDAs to EFI I couldn't believe how good the car was to drive, you put your foot down at any time and know exactly how the car would react.
Steve
Bet you cant wait to drive it. I remember when I first went from IDAs to EFI I couldn't believe how good the car was to drive, you put your foot down at any time and know exactly how the car would react.
Steve
Ampdub Officially Full-On Dubber
310 posts · joined May 2006 ·
what type of end castings are you using there, CB or self made? looking at going this route. what is the approximate cost of these?StenGuns wrote:Hats off to you mate.. Even though I didn't get my hands dirty on the EFI for my vehicle (I am TTT deficient - Time, Tools, Talent) I fully understand the tweaking, tinkering and decision making you go through to get WHAT YOU WANT.. My 1916 is going to deliver hopefully, a beautiful balanced, torquey output. The last piece in the jigsaw was the exhaust setup and that will be finalised next week. Westside fabricate a sweet looking twin setup that is going to still give me the twin pipe "stock" look.
All the best.. Rob
thanks
56astro Custom Title Time!
1,772 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·
Somewhere above, amongst the 170-odd posts, you should find the answer to that one !
VW car, VW engine ...... keepin it "real"
35MPG on 101.3kPa
westi what the
1,610 posts · joined Aug 2005 ·
how was the first drive.were is the vid's or pic's
com on mate you have to share.
com on mate you have to share.
down sharon.
Craig Torrens 6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion
8,040 posts · joined Jan 2003 ·
As a guide for others who wish to do this, how much did it cost you to do the whole conversion ?
56astro Custom Title Time!
1,772 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·
Still fishing Craig??
Anyone wanting to do this should price all the components necessary for THAT PARTICULAR system. Then factor in labour costs for all the work you can't do yourself (in my case that was a lot).
Cheapest way I imagine would be to wack on a set of quad TBs.
Try a different bait Craig!
Anyone wanting to do this should price all the components necessary for THAT PARTICULAR system. Then factor in labour costs for all the work you can't do yourself (in my case that was a lot).
Cheapest way I imagine would be to wack on a set of quad TBs.
Try a different bait Craig!
VW car, VW engine ...... keepin it "real"
35MPG on 101.3kPa
pete wood 23 Windows of Awesome
6,828 posts · joined Jan 2004 ·
you'd be surprise how expensive a quad throttle body setup is. I got a 'cheap' quote for an entry level setup that roughly added up to $4k before fitting or tuning. So I don't if I'd say I could "wack" on quads as the cheapest way.
Astro, respectfully, it would be great to know the details of what you've spent (itemised) so others can pick your brains a bit. I see what you're aiming for and for a street car it's a good aim. You are right about hidden costs though.
Astro, respectfully, it would be great to know the details of what you've spent (itemised) so others can pick your brains a bit. I see what you're aiming for and for a street car it's a good aim. You are right about hidden costs though.
"stoopid is stronger than axles"
http://drivingnotpolishing.blogspot.com.au/
http://drivingnotpolishing.blogspot.com.au/
56astro Custom Title Time!
1,772 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·
Pete,
the nay-sayers would just laugh at the costs, so why give them the satisfaction. I learnt a lesson very recently, quite often it is better to be secretive, unfortunately.
the nay-sayers would just laugh at the costs, so why give them the satisfaction. I learnt a lesson very recently, quite often it is better to be secretive, unfortunately.
VW car, VW engine ...... keepin it "real"
35MPG on 101.3kPa
hellbugged 48's and straight cuts
5,080 posts · joined Apr 2003 ·
driving yet Steve?...........yep no way around it, EFI ain't cheap, but has wonderful benefit's for the investment, i can't wait to do mine too.