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58 Beetle - Subaru WRX STI bug - The Bug That was...BYE BYE

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ian.mezz I never said, I could write or spell

3,913 posts · joined Sep 2004 ·

#710858
Josh and I use the stock sump and we have stock suspension and the sumps have hit the ground real hard a lot of times, but no leaks yet ,
plus they were already damaged from the motors been dragged around on the floor .
stock sumps are cheap and you could fab up a little bash plate.
Ps they only hit the ground on boost on uneven road. 🤪
😂🤪😂🤪😂
car forums. where a lot of peoples good intentions end up taking a good old car off the road forever never ever to see the road again. 🥲

hellbugged 48's and straight cuts

5,080 posts · joined Apr 2003 ·

#710860
yeah, Ian, stock height and heavy torsion bars is the key..........

they do get holes in em tho 👎

Joel Now containing 100\% E-Wang

9,368 posts · joined Feb 2006 ·

#710902
they take a bit of a beating
what u using for headers mick?

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Jak Rizzo Insano Dub Head

837 posts · joined Apr 2004 ·

#710939
Mick058 wrote:Alright, need advice re shortened sumps.
Question 1 - are they the same on all EJ20 engines. Some seem really low, while mine currently is about 20mm or so below the oil filter. Not much of a clearance saving - or is the idea to also do something about the oil filter?
Question 2 - any known issues with shortened sump? I have read all the other material about them on the forum, just want an update if any issues.
Question 3 - has anyone cracked the original by hitting it on the ground?
Mick, I had welded a 5mm thick bash plate to mine that lasted almost 4 years! I ended up making my own sump & it cost $45.
http://www.superbeetlesonly.com/forum/uploads/1237377750/gallery_295_6_52745.jpg
http://www.superbeetlesonly.com/forum/uploads/1237377750/gallery_295_6_56973.jpg
I've only shortened it an inch as it's now just a touch higher than the factory headers. I have never ever hit the oil filter, leave the factory unit where it is.
regards
Jak

Mick058 Custom Title Time!

1,580 posts · joined Jan 2008 ·

#710942
Jak, what happened at the 'almost 4 years' mark? Bust the original or just thought to change.

Headers wise, im not 100% Joel, will try and catch up with Brad tonight - idea is to re-do it all, but as to where and how high - not sure yet.

So, just on question 1 - are all the sumps the same on EJ20 motors? Seems like a lot of work/cost for about a 20mm or so saving in clearance.

Does it put the oil filter at risk of being hit? OR do you make sure headers come just below it?

Guess it depends how low the car sits aswell, suspension setup etc.
http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=67295 (myride)

Romans 10:9

Jak Rizzo Insano Dub Head

837 posts · joined Apr 2004 ·

#710946
Mick058 wrote:Jak, what happened at the 'almost 4 years' mark? Bust the original or just thought to change.

Headers wise, im not 100% Joel, will try and catch up with Brad tonight - idea is to re-do it all, but as to where and how high - not sure yet.
The almost 4 years came about that I had forgotten that my children were getting bigger, now 9 & 6, when I drop them to school I was noticing that i was "touching" speed humps in their school more & also the driveway out it was touching. I then realised that the kids were getting bigger, slightly.
It's not a problem for all the Mums in their BMW & Merc 4wd though LOL.

As for the headers, be careful as on the rexxy forums, they all complain from a lack of bottom end torque after changing the stock headers.
regards
Jak

psimitar Son of Jim - Creator of Good

2,506 posts · joined Jan 2009 ·

#711124
Modifying the sump is fairly easy mate. You lop off however much you wish and fabricate an inverted T to weld onto whats left of the original sump. The inverted T means you keep the same volume of oil in the sump.
Take a look at Custom Veedub in stafford brisbane and you'll see what i mean.
Custom Veedub shortened sump
madness is in the eye of the beholder 👍

Mick058 Custom Title Time!

1,580 posts · joined Jan 2008 ·

#711146
yeh i understand what you mean - i know capacity is the key - you need to make sure you add 'wings' or a make a 'T' shape as you say to keep capacity.

$600 though - a bit of dosh for 20mm or so gain (maybe less??). Also alot of debate in regards to shortening it all, even while increase capacity via width.

I think ill wait for now and see how it goes. The anti surge Pobjoy sump hung pretty low but i never hit it. Gear changes and a squat in a Sti engine may change that fact though.

Even i shortened it i would need to go for a remote oil filter, otherwise it will be the lowest thing and the saving clearance would not be worth it.
http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=67295 (myride)

Romans 10:9

Mick058 Custom Title Time!

1,580 posts · joined Jan 2008 ·

#711158
Some pics for people to see.

Sorry, there not that exciting, but at least its visual!

Gives an idea of clearance etc. Obviously the car isn't completely settled here - rolled it back and forth a little, but it would sit a little lower than this. Plus, currently no oil, water, intercooler, heat exchanger etc - so a little more weight out back to come.










http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=67295 (myride)

Romans 10:9

Jak Rizzo Insano Dub Head

837 posts · joined Apr 2004 ·

#711159
u are going to have so much fun scaring the poo out of yourself everytime u drive it!.
I do

Jak

1303Steve Scirocco Rare

8,650 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#711163
Hi Mick

The car is looking good, I will have to come over for a look soon.

I have a bugs@5speed sump for my car, I haven't fitted it as yet.

With varying opinions on shortening sumps Ive invested in a 2 quart (1.8 litre) Accsump from Canton Racing to alleviate any oil starvation issues mand to do a pre lube before starting.

I will need to remotely mount the oil filter to run the Accusump.

The commonly available oil take off blocks have the fitting ports pointing straight down, by the time the fittings are fitted they end up lower that a stock oil filter.

So Ive also ordered a take off block from Canton

I'm planning on using the stock oil 2 water cooler until it proves unreliable, but Jak has said in another post that his oil temps with the stock cooler are fine, getting rid of the stock oil cooler would raise the oil fliter.

Steve

Jak Rizzo Insano Dub Head

837 posts · joined Apr 2004 ·

#711166
with the sump that I made, I now have an oil capacity of 6 litres, up from the standard 5 litres. With the standard sump I only get my oil temps up to 90d on the track, thats after 5 laps around Eastern Creek on a 35d day. Now my oil temps are even lower! The last thing u need is a cooler on these things. U will never get the oil hot enough.
Keep as much of the factory stuff as possible & keep it simple, keep it reliable👍

Jak

Mick058 Custom Title Time!

1,580 posts · joined Jan 2008 ·

#711167
so your not mounting a radiator at all for the oil?

And Jak, you have no issues this way either?

I'm not planning on running an oil cooler, but may in the future if i find the temps are high - if i shorten the sump, then i will get the oil cooler kit which runs a remote oil filter.
http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=67295 (myride)

Romans 10:9

Jak Rizzo Insano Dub Head

837 posts · joined Apr 2004 ·

#711170
There is absolutely no reason to run an oil cooler with these motors. I have done countless trips on the freeway in the middle of summer sitting on 140kph, over 15 track days & never had the oil over 90d & thats an extreme temp for my oil. It's always much lower particularly on the street which is where our cars spend most of their time.
Spend your money elsewhere Mick. There is no reason to complicate these conversions with extra lines & coolers. there is enough of that as it is.

Jak

squizy Thinking about another dub...maybe

4,082 posts · joined Dec 2002 ·

#711171
Mick are you running a narrowed beam? I want to throw this question out for comment if you are....

If you're running a narrowed beam, with all of that extra power, will it not make the car more prone to oversteer even swinging right around for that matter if it does get away from you? And therefore you might need to consider putting in a normal width beam to give you that extra front track, and therefore stability?

Mick058 Custom Title Time!

1,580 posts · joined Jan 2008 ·

#711173
fair comment - what do people think? I have heard this from others too Squizy.

I had some 'advice' when i first had the car that i 'needed' to run a narrowed bar to keep the wheel choices - this was early on in the and i was on a steep learning curve.

I believe CT runs the same wheels without the narrowed beam and i believe not a whole bunch of negative camber.

Brad (westi) - what do you think? how much labor?

I have thought about this, forgot to ask Brad about it last night - better now then later! Also, i don't mind running a bit of Neg camber if i need to as its not a daily driver!

I could probably find someone to do a swap with if i needed too.
http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=67295 (myride)

Romans 10:9

1303Steve Scirocco Rare

8,650 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#711175
Hi

The factory water 2 oil coolers also give a faster warm up.

Mick before you decide to ditch the narrowed beam, think about future wheel choices, if you had any in mind that is.

17" Turbo twists would look good on your car.

Steve

Mick058 Custom Title Time!

1,580 posts · joined Jan 2008 ·

#711177
tell me, by increasing wheel size on a narrowed beam, saying i increase 1inch track per side - will this result in the same outcome as a standard beam?

Or, if i added spacers to the current beam - say 1inch thick each side - would that be the same outcome as having a standard beam?

So what im saying is, will handling improve by sticking the wheels out further, or does the narrowed beam issues come simply from the fact that its narrowed?

Does this make ANY sense?

So is it all to do with wheel positioning, or will handling still suck simply due to the fact that the beam is narrowed, no matter how much i 'push' the wheels out.
http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=67295 (myride)

Romans 10:9

Craig Torrens 6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion

8,040 posts · joined Jan 2003 ·

#711180
If you want to do a swap for the beam let me know..................i would be interested inyour narrowed beam.


1303Steve Scirocco Rare

8,650 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#711182
Hi Mick

Spacers are no no.

But for the exercise sticking 1 inch spacers on a 2 inch narrowed beam is not the same as having a non narrowed beam.

The centre line of the tyre/wheel if using spacers is is moved further out from the centre pivot line of the steering knuckle, this will have many effects, extra load on wheels bearings, more likely that the suspension will be upset undulations and potholes etc.

Steve

Craig Torrens 6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion

8,040 posts · joined Jan 2003 ·

#711183
accumen 😁..................start reading suspension books dude !!!!!!


psimitar Son of Jim - Creator of Good

2,506 posts · joined Jan 2009 ·

#711184
pushing the wheels out on spacers will give you back the more stable handling of a stock beam but you'll then increase the stress on the front bearings due to shifting the load further out. In extreme load conditions, heavy cornering whilst braking, this could cause the stub axle to break off. its all about the point of leverage
Imo the shortened beams are for looks and the standard beam for handling but thats me 🙂
madness is in the eye of the beholder 👍

Mick058 Custom Title Time!

1,580 posts · joined Jan 2008 ·

#711185
ha, well, worth asking - i could pretend i know all the answers and post rubbish all over the forum quoting even dumber guys from other forums.

Thanks Steve, i figured this would be the answer considering trailing arms and the like are still in the same position - didn't think of 'loads'.
http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=67295 (myride)

Romans 10:9

ian.mezz I never said, I could write or spell

3,913 posts · joined Sep 2004 ·

#711189
when you get your blue slip , the sump has to comply with the 100mm ground clearance🙅
😂🤪😂🤪😂
car forums. where a lot of peoples good intentions end up taking a good old car off the road forever never ever to see the road again. 🥲