The Subabeetle project

Joel · 2009-06-06T07:59:04+00:00

OK well i guess its about time i pulled my finger out and started a thread on the conversion ive already started one on VWKD awhile back but have been very slack keeping it updated so most of this is just copied and pasted from it for those that dont know yet im putting an subaru EJ22 in my beetle and im one of these people who likes to do alot of research on things before i start especially something as big as an engine conversion and i found that while plenty of people have done this and made threads about their car noone has really done an indepth thread showing whats involved from go to whoa so ive decided to do that for people that are maybe considering this conversion in the future i'm an ex photography student so be warned you will be bombarded with photos but i find most interested parties generally like it this way anyway Just a quick project overview without trying to bore people to much. ive wanted to subi power a vw for a long time, i fell inlove with the idea after a local put an EJ20T in his superbug convertable back in the mid 90s I do love VW motors, ive grown up with them and have knocked that many toghether over the years i could do it in my sleep. i had planned on always keeping my Lbug pretty well standard and VW powered so in 2001 i bought my 70 beetle which already had already been fitted with a mazda rotary and was going to swap it over to an EJ20T as it was already setup for water cooled engine well that worked...... i sold the car last year cos after nearly 8 years taking up valuable garage realestate i had only got as far as fixing the body and giving it a quick paintjob cos i was too busy always doing something to the Lbug and various other VW projects i dragged home i hadnt ever given any thought to converting the Lbug, being an unmolested car i never had the heart to cut it up or do anything that was irreversable but then i started looking into new 2 projects - Fuel injection and Air conditioning looking at off the shelf EFI kits starting at $3k and even building up myself a junkyard kit wouldnt have left much change out of $1.5k, and mounting a compressor and setting up belts and pulleys on a vw was a hassle id already been thro once already setting up the supercharger so i wasnt sure what direction to take but i definately wanted to step into the 21st century and get away from carbs after almost 10 years ownership i realised i would never sell it and should just make it into what i really wanted so all of a sudden a Subaru conversion was looking more and more attractive i wasnt actively looking for a subaru engine, i was happy enough with my 1776 which is only 4500kms old for the time being but a guy i know locally had just bought a Liberty only to get a few parts from for his and the car was just sitting on his front lawn so i jokingly made him an offer and to my surprise he accepted it had been a well maintiained old ladys car untill some kids decided to use the roof as a trampoline it was still complete and drivable so not only could i see the engine running i was actually able to take it for a good drive that was all it took to convince me, it ran like clockwork, none of the usual subaru lifter clacking or shaking around, the oil and coolant were nice and clean and the sticker on the firewall showed the timing belt was done only 3 years ago with a quality Dayco belt and best of all no oil leaks from the engine, only abit of auto trans oil around the back of the engine and a bit of residual shit around the rocker covers I was told it didnt use any oil either but we'll see, it certainly didnt blow any smoke for people considering going down this route the best advice i can offer is if you have the room and resources get a donor car as apposed to buying the engine and bits main reasons are: everything matches. Subaru changed things on a yearly basis particularly ECUs and more often than not parts are not compatible ive heard horror stories of people buying engines from a wrecker and the loom has been taken from another vehicle and doesnt match the engine there are also lots of small fiddly parts seprate to the engine that are needed but can easily be missed it often works out cheaper to, a whole running car can be bought rusted or damaged for as little as $400 you may pay around $1k just for an engine and loom from a wrecker that u cant hear running and maybe a mis match to, plus compression test figures can be fudged pulling the engine out isnt real difficult but the wiring is a big job and also very delicate and time consuming, wreckers have bad habits of just cutting wires and breaking things being rough with them etc and you can also recoupe costs selling off uneeded stuff from the car and maybe get some cash for scrap with the shell I went the EJ22 for a number of reasons, the main one was fit theyre almost identical in dimensions to a 1600 so theres no body cutting needed except for 2 minor sections of the seal lip cut off the valance in either corner to clear the…

JVLRacing Custom Title Time!

1,100 posts · joined Mar 2007 · 24 Feb 2010, 10:12 am

#764091

Jaks way of scollopin the guards is very good....
but first do a test with the deckids u have *heat test with them both* temp testing could save lots of dollars!

colonel mustard Son of Jim - Creator of Good

2,829 posts · joined Feb 2009 · 24 Feb 2010, 10:30 am

#764095

Joel wrote:by condensor u mean pod filter 😉

ah no... i mean -

Joel wrote:crank the a/c on a hot day too then the extra heat of the condensor is only adding to that

Joel Now containing 100\% E-Wang

9,368 posts · joined Feb 2006 · 24 Feb 2010, 10:34 am

#764097

thinking im missing the gist of that one
anyway the condensor will just sit infront of the rad like a stock install and use the rad fans

but now that the engines in the back, heat off it is not gonna be an issue

Joel Now containing 100\% E-Wang

9,368 posts · joined Feb 2006 · 24 Feb 2010, 10:48 am

#764099

JVLRacing wrote:Jaks way of scollopin the guards is very good....
but first do a test with the deckids u have *heat test with them both* temp testing could save lots of dollars!

yea gonna do some testing soon as i get the chance
the highly variable weather we get here isnt making it easy
38c and truely oppresive yesterday.... pouring down with over 2" rain today... gotta love it 🙄,

just on the subject of temps

Pete, can you satisfy my curiousity?
i know your's is a 25 but what temp does your gauge say when the fans cut in?
im assuming your fans are switched by the ECU?

mine are on at 102 and off at 98 which i always thought was a bit high but both engines did it exactly the same and seem happy enough about it, i cant seem to find info on what temps the OBDI single speed fans operate

cheers

JVLRacing Custom Title Time!

1,100 posts · joined Mar 2007 · 24 Feb 2010, 10:56 am

#764100

My one fan worked of ECU......but never ran at those temps u blokes are at....

So are u living around balina joel?

jjwebb123 Wolfsburg Wizard

617 posts · joined Aug 2009 · 24 Feb 2010, 11:01 am

#764101

what a beast well done.

"A car for the people, an affordable Volkswagen, would bring great joy to the masses and the problems of building such a car must be faced with courage."
Adolf Hitler At opening of 1934 Berlin Auto Show

Joel Now containing 100\% E-Wang

9,368 posts · joined Feb 2006 · 24 Feb 2010, 11:12 am

#764102

JVLRacing wrote:My one fan worked of ECU......but never ran at those temps u blokes are at....

So are u living around balina joel?

yea just 15 mins out of it

im wondering about the accuracy of my temp gauge
i meant to test it when i swapped the motors over

within about 5 mins it gets to 90c and sits there for ages which im guessing is the 'stat opening temp
but the 'stat is rated at 78c so i'm really thinking gauge could be off

none the less though its not gettting hot at any rate even hot enough that the fan is cycling it only rises the overflow level by 1.5"
not bad for a 14L capacity system

oh yeah steve, i found out the othe day its blatantly obvious when you get a coolant leak
i got a big white steam cloud behind me the oter day driving along, checked it out and my tyre wore a hole in the overflow bottle....oops, knew mounting it under there would have a downside somewhere

ian can only do it cos he has pizza cutter tyres

ian.mezz I never said, I could write or spell

3,913 posts · joined Sep 2004 · 24 Feb 2010, 11:45 am

#764105

Joel wrote:
JVLRacing wrote:Jaks way of scollopin the guards is very good....
but first do a test with the deckids u have *heat test with them both* temp testing could save lots of dollars!
yea gonna do some testing soon as i get the chance
the highly variable weather we get here isnt making it easy
38c and truely oppresive yesterday.... pouring down with over 2" rain today... gotta love it 🙄,

just on the subject of temps

Pete, can you satisfy my curiousity?
i know your's is a 25 but what temp does your gauge say when the fans cut in?
im assuming your fans are switched by the ECU?

mine are on at 102 and off at 98 which i always thought was a bit high but both engines did it exactly the same and seem happy enough about it, i cant seem to find info on what temps the OBDI single speed fans operate

cheers

102 sounds ok to me, you think to much🤪

😂🤪😂🤪😂
car forums. where a lot of peoples good intentions end up taking a good old car off the road forever never ever to see the road again. 🥲

ElusiveStranger Officially Full-On Dubber

330 posts · joined May 2006 · 24 Feb 2010, 11:47 am

#764106

Nice going J.

OT - Why do I get 3 notifications sent when someone replies to this thread? I logged in 5 hours ago, now I've logged back in (E-mail) and 30 bloody notifications for 10 posts!

1303Steve Scirocco Rare

8,650 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 24 Feb 2010, 12:13 pm

#764110

Hi Joel

Most Euro cars have the fans wired to the battery so that the fans continue to run after shutdown, this is a good idea as the coolant will continue to circulate even with the motor off.

On my old 1302 I had a Davies Craig fan switch, when it was 1st put together with carbs it just turned on or off when needed.

When I went EFI I used the ECU to trigger the fans, I felt that this was not a great idea for cooldowns so I wired the Davies Craig switch to work via the "buzzer" terminal from the ignition switch so as soon as the key was removed the Davies Craig switch took over the fan switching.

Steve

Joel Now containing 100\% E-Wang

9,368 posts · joined Feb 2006 · 24 Feb 2010, 7:13 pm

#764160

Balders, atleast you only get 3, i get 6 🤪
its just due to the amount of people who subscribed, must only be so many can be sent per email or soemthing like that

Steve, my radiator has a fan sender switch in the bottom of it, i've thought about using but the ECU seems to do a good job of managing it so ill leave it be for now
plus the ECU idles the engine up when it kicks the fan in like that
and once i get my a/c going it will make things easier too as the ECU controls the a/c side of things too

My S coupe i just sold was also like that with the fan switch, running after shutting down.
A few times i pulled up in a carpark locked it up and walked away and someone called out your car's still running 😂

Joel Now containing 100\% E-Wang

9,368 posts · joined Feb 2006 · 25 Feb 2010, 1:30 pm

#764348

as i mentioned i ended up opening up the radiator intake by cutting the bars out of it which opened it up by 50% as i had the slots evenly spaced

gaping hole looked like crap so i got some expanded metal to put in it

oh whatever 🙄
well its failed to turn my bug into a show car, i want my refund

ugh.... chrome how tacky

thats better

i noticed while i had the rad cover off there's proof there that the airflow is making it all the way to the top of the rad

bug radiator 1
two crickets and a fly 0

now i just gotta wait for some warmer weather with less precipitation to see what sort of difference it makes

pete wood 23 Windows of Awesome

6,828 posts · joined Jan 2004 · 25 Feb 2010, 2:32 pm

#764352

Mine aren't switched by the ECU. I have them set to come on at 95deg.

"stoopid is stronger than axles"
http://drivingnotpolishing.blogspot.com.au/

ian.mezz I never said, I could write or spell

3,913 posts · joined Sep 2004 · 25 Feb 2010, 3:11 pm

#764357

HA yOU
that's what I did,
A Ricer job, stop taking all my good ideas 🤪 next thing you'll know you'll have a Turbo hanging off the thing.

😂🤪😂🤪😂
car forums. where a lot of peoples good intentions end up taking a good old car off the road forever never ever to see the road again. 🥲

Joel Now containing 100\% E-Wang

9,368 posts · joined Feb 2006 · 25 Feb 2010, 3:57 pm

#764372

yea, will be the same time i put it back on 165s and stock rideheight 😂

thanks Pete, where bouts does your sender take the reading from?

BlueV2 Seriously Crusin Dubber

193 posts · joined Apr 2008 · 25 Feb 2010, 5:19 pm

#764390

Mine is a EJ25 with a Imprezza radiator and the fan runs off the ECU. The fan hardly ever comes on, but it did on the weekend when I was at Stockton. It was pretty warm on Saturday and the fan came on a few times after working the motor hard for about 10 minutes or so. I run a imprezza gauge cluster so I cant tell at exactly what temp the fan comes on, but it never goes up past half way.

Sharpbuilt V2, EJ25, Subaru 5 Speed, Falcon rear discs, Heater & A/C, Rack Steering

ian.mezz I never said, I could write or spell

3,913 posts · joined Sep 2004 · 26 Feb 2010, 8:36 am

#764495

Joel wrote:yea, will be the same time i put it back on 165s and stock rideheight 😂

thanks Pete, where bouts does your sender take the reading from?

IF You have a used radiator it maybe half blocked already.
you should get ones of those laser gun temp checkers.
or feel the front of radiator and make sure hot all over.

😂🤪😂🤪😂
car forums. where a lot of peoples good intentions end up taking a good old car off the road forever never ever to see the road again. 🥲

Joel Now containing 100\% E-Wang

9,368 posts · joined Feb 2006 · 26 Feb 2010, 4:55 pm

#764565

radiators just been reco'd and fitted with new top and bottom tanks
you can see inside its clean as a whistle

its not actually getting hot, hell the fan has only come one once in 1500kms without forcing it

i just noticed the temp went up 5c when doing between 90 and 100km/h and im pretty sure it was my valance opening wasnt quite big enough

rocknrob Insano Dub Head

844 posts · joined Dec 2003 · 26 Feb 2010, 6:08 pm

#764581

Hey Joel its not only the air inlet that matters its the exit too...at 100kph assuming that inlet is roughly 10cm x 80cm you have roughly 2 cubic metres of fresh air per second hitting it but it all needs to go somewhere. There is a possible venturi effect or vacuum caused by the airflow under the car or if its wrong it could prevent airflow...i have frigged around with airflaps a bit but it all gets too hard🤓 someone like Wes could explain it better👍

Joel Now containing 100\% E-Wang

9,368 posts · joined Feb 2006 · 27 Feb 2010, 10:07 am

#764678

yeah i made sure there was heaps of room for the air to get away behind the rad, all the wheel arch areas are open

on those couple of 42c days we had a month or so ago when the fan cut in if it was parked you could really feel the heat coming out under the running boards
was making like a tornado under there

Joel Now containing 100\% E-Wang

9,368 posts · joined Feb 2006 · 28 Feb 2010, 3:32 pm

#764891

well i finally got to try it out today, went for a cruise into ballina to see what this tsunami was doing to the surf

well im stoked
firstly, with the mesh in and painted you cant even tell theres a radiator intake there unless you really look for it
stands out 100x less than the slots did

but more importantly its now running cooler
most noticably in town
where it used to run at 92c its now dropped back to 85 and even out on highway its dropped from 92 back to 88ish

just to check that it wasnt a fluke i pulled over and let it heat up to 100c then took off again
without about 1km it had dropped back to mid 80s.

but best of all that temp differential between 90-100km/h has now gone

didnt seem to matter whether i was doing 60,80,100 or 110 it stayed below 90 so i think i got it nutted now
just needed more airflow

i decided to conduct alittle experiment and covered part of the rad up with cardboard just to see how temps were effected

on the highway it went back to its usual 92c and around town sat at 95, still couldnt get the fan to come on though without stopping completely for a few mins

ian.mezz I never said, I could write or spell

3,913 posts · joined Sep 2004 · 28 Feb 2010, 4:57 pm

#764903

ahhh I see a bit of the farmer coming out in you.
trying the old potato bag over the tractor radiator trick
to warm it on on those cold morning.😂

😂🤪😂🤪😂
car forums. where a lot of peoples good intentions end up taking a good old car off the road forever never ever to see the road again. 🥲

JVLRacing Custom Title Time!

1,100 posts · joined Mar 2007 · 28 Feb 2010, 10:12 pm

#765032

aaarr now u are seein good numbers....nice

Jak Rizzo Insano Dub Head

837 posts · joined Apr 2004 · 1 Mar 2010, 10:48 am

#765091

JVLRacing wrote:My one fan worked of ECU......but never ran at those temps u blokes are at....

thats cause u never F*&king drove it!😂 LMFAO!

Hi Joel,
I too had my pod filter sitting under the air vents under the back window. Thats when I cracked a piston skirt due to too hot air intake temps, BUT, I put mine on the track & it's turboed. But still , I would have the pod filter totally enclosed from the engine bay, at least it will be legal then as well.
As for the decklid, I would definantly go back the original with the slots in it, they actually let hot air out, not in, so would help with the heatsoak that our Subie engines are renown for.
If u want to check your intake temps, just get a probe with digital display form jaycar, cost me $45. Not totally needed though since u are normally aspirated.

regards
Jak

PS black wheels look great!

pete wood 23 Windows of Awesome

6,828 posts · joined Jan 2004 · 1 Mar 2010, 12:28 pm

#765104

^ 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂

Joel, my temp sender is in the stock position.

"stoopid is stronger than axles"
http://drivingnotpolishing.blogspot.com.au/

Joel Now containing 100\% E-Wang

9,368 posts · joined Feb 2006 · 1 Mar 2010, 8:27 pm

#765228

the one for the fans Pete?

cheers for the tips Jak,
I'm not normally one for copying others ideas but I'm thinking about a similar setup to yours by boxing in my air filter and ducting it atleast into the wheel arch, if not into the top of the guard as well

some of the guys on ozliberty seem to swear a CAI gives an improvement

might help stop some of the intake roar too
not as bad as twin webers but still there

it was due for its monthly rim swap, theyre not staying though, just a result of a rim shuffle amongst cars
the bugs the only car of mine that can run 18s without scrubbing.
the roads around here are too neglected to run 18s all the time

colonel mustard Son of Jim - Creator of Good

2,829 posts · joined Feb 2009 · 1 Mar 2010, 10:16 pm

#765289

What's it look like with 15's..... 🙂

Jak Rizzo Insano Dub Head

837 posts · joined Apr 2004 · 2 Mar 2010, 2:58 am

#765321

Sorry Joel, but my air intake only increased my intake noise & also the blow off valve noise. it comes right into the drivers window.............................I love it!
It's so quiet I have to have some fun!

Without a doubt cold air makes an improvement, the last couple of days I've had air intake temps in the 20's, the engine really loves it! It literally goes off with the colder air.
Jak

Joel Now containing 100\% E-Wang

9,368 posts · joined Feb 2006 · 2 Mar 2010, 7:03 am

#765335

i dont doubt at all it makes an improvement, 99% of stock filter boxes have some fresh air ducting into them

sadly i havent got a wooshka valve to enjoy the sound of yet, which is funny cos people who here the exhaust note would probably expect it, but i can see now you mention it how it might amplify the intake roar especially in the drivers window

my problem is i still have an AFM to deal with
your running map based management now yea?

Jak Rizzo Insano Dub Head

837 posts · joined Apr 2004 · 2 Mar 2010, 8:28 am

#765342

I've had an aftermarket ECU from the start. No AFM to contend with.
regards
Jak